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<blockquote data-quote="Belen" data-source="post: 1356250" data-attributes="member: 1405">In fact, I know the rules quite well.&nbsp; It is my players who feel that high level play has no meaning.&nbsp; They have ranted about how easy it is to come back to life and how combat is not fun at high levels because no fear exists.The fact that the would rather fight than do some of the RP that high level brings is probably a factor in their belief that high level is no fun, but I also believe that it comes, in part, from the rules.Heroic play is fine, and a lot of fun.&nbsp; But, without fear, then a lot of the meaning of high level play is lost.&nbsp; The threat of losing the character just isn't there.Your problem is that you're arguing for balanced combat.&nbsp; It's the video game mentality that combat is the entire purpose of the game.&nbsp; For you, it is &quot;solid gamist design.&quot;I am arguing for rules that support story components outside of combat.&nbsp; Fire and Forget Vancian magic supports combat and that has only gotten worse with 3.5.&nbsp; In any event, I have not been arguing mechanics.&nbsp; In fact, I referenced a second edition effect of a spell and how I thought that it was a cool RP effect, and you have decided that &quot;I do not know the rules.&quot;&nbsp; Advocating random penalties for RP reason will sure destroy that &quot;solid gamist design.&quot;&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!&nbsp; &nbsp; :eek:"&nbsp; data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> However, please keep the insults coming.&nbsp; Since you know that I obviously do not know the rules.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Belen, post: 1356250, member: 1405"] In fact, I know the rules quite well. It is my players who feel that high level play has no meaning. They have ranted about how easy it is to come back to life and how combat is not fun at high levels because no fear exists. The fact that the would rather fight than do some of the RP that high level brings is probably a factor in their belief that high level is no fun, but I also believe that it comes, in part, from the rules. Heroic play is fine, and a lot of fun. But, without fear, then a lot of the meaning of high level play is lost. The threat of losing the character just isn't there. Your problem is that you're arguing for balanced combat. It's the video game mentality that combat is the entire purpose of the game. For you, it is "solid gamist design." I am arguing for rules that support story components outside of combat. Fire and Forget Vancian magic supports combat and that has only gotten worse with 3.5. In any event, I have not been arguing mechanics. In fact, I referenced a second edition effect of a spell and how I thought that it was a cool RP effect, and you have decided that "I do not know the rules." Advocating random penalties for RP reason will sure destroy that "solid gamist design." :eek: However, please keep the insults coming. Since you know that I obviously do not know the rules. [/QUOTE]

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