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Flavour First vs Game First - a comparison
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<blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 4460683" data-attributes="member: 11300"><p>While I think KM has narrowed things down a step too far, I don't think you are giving enough credence to his point separating D&D from other games. The enjoyment of a D&D game I think should be different than in a game of Puerto Rico [the game that is most probably going to be voted the best board game by board game enthusiasts] for example. While there is a basic element of role play in Puerto Rico, it is the elegant mechanics behind the game that provides such an incredibly wide sand box of possibilities. For D&D, I think the game has evolved beyond its war-gaming roots into a rich experience of fantasy story for a large number of players. Whilst not all players focus on this, a large percentage do consider a D&D games success by how well it evokes a fantasy story or epic that they are a significant part of. I think for most players, they play D&D more for the flavour of the game than for the underlying mechanics.</p><p>Can you give an example or two here. I can give a couple of examples of the reverse, solid mechanics but poor flavour.</p><p></p><p>4E My character is whacked to within an inch of his life - the rest of the party thought him dead until he somehow got up after a fight. Using 4E mechanics, I'm back to full strength the next day if not a fraction earlier with no magical healing whatsoever. Great for getting me as a player back into the action without holding the rest of the party up from the adventure. A solid mechanic. In terms of flavour, absolutely, diabolically artificial.</p><p></p><p>3.x Hit points. Great mechanic at keeping the game moving. Definitely mechanic first rather than the other way around. A sacred cow that perhaps deserves to be. However, there are several anomalies that result: 15th level human fighter falls from 200 feet and survives. 1st level fighter falls from the same height is a puddle of goo. As well, a poor constitution wizard and a very healthy barbarian (both of the same level) are dropped to zero hit points. The unhealthy wizard recovers more quickly to full health than the hale barbarian. A competent cleric can heal a low level fighter back to full health without issue. If the fighter was higher level though with the same level of physical injury to be healed, it would suck up the same cleric's resources for the entire day.</p><p></p><p>I suppose I re-iterate what I said earlier. It is the sybiosis between flavour and mechanic that makes a game-feature good, not one or the other first. Mechanics first is fine for board games, but I think D&D is a different kettle of fish for the majority of players; D&D relies more so on flavour than the conventional (and albeit brilliant) boardgame.</p><p></p><p>Best Regards</p><p>Herremann the Wise</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Herremann the Wise, post: 4460683, member: 11300"] While I think KM has narrowed things down a step too far, I don't think you are giving enough credence to his point separating D&D from other games. The enjoyment of a D&D game I think should be different than in a game of Puerto Rico [the game that is most probably going to be voted the best board game by board game enthusiasts] for example. While there is a basic element of role play in Puerto Rico, it is the elegant mechanics behind the game that provides such an incredibly wide sand box of possibilities. For D&D, I think the game has evolved beyond its war-gaming roots into a rich experience of fantasy story for a large number of players. Whilst not all players focus on this, a large percentage do consider a D&D games success by how well it evokes a fantasy story or epic that they are a significant part of. I think for most players, they play D&D more for the flavour of the game than for the underlying mechanics. Can you give an example or two here. I can give a couple of examples of the reverse, solid mechanics but poor flavour. 4E My character is whacked to within an inch of his life - the rest of the party thought him dead until he somehow got up after a fight. Using 4E mechanics, I'm back to full strength the next day if not a fraction earlier with no magical healing whatsoever. Great for getting me as a player back into the action without holding the rest of the party up from the adventure. A solid mechanic. In terms of flavour, absolutely, diabolically artificial. 3.x Hit points. Great mechanic at keeping the game moving. Definitely mechanic first rather than the other way around. A sacred cow that perhaps deserves to be. However, there are several anomalies that result: 15th level human fighter falls from 200 feet and survives. 1st level fighter falls from the same height is a puddle of goo. As well, a poor constitution wizard and a very healthy barbarian (both of the same level) are dropped to zero hit points. The unhealthy wizard recovers more quickly to full health than the hale barbarian. A competent cleric can heal a low level fighter back to full health without issue. If the fighter was higher level though with the same level of physical injury to be healed, it would suck up the same cleric's resources for the entire day. I suppose I re-iterate what I said earlier. It is the sybiosis between flavour and mechanic that makes a game-feature good, not one or the other first. Mechanics first is fine for board games, but I think D&D is a different kettle of fish for the majority of players; D&D relies more so on flavour than the conventional (and albeit brilliant) boardgame. Best Regards Herremann the Wise [/QUOTE]
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