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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4463041" data-attributes="member: 18280">Cool.&nbsp; Imagine the poor fool wondering if he should just eat whatever food is offered, or become a vegetarian.&nbsp; There is no distinction, we are told, because both meat and vegetables are food.Now, add into the mix the actual topic (i.e., mechanics-first or flavour-first design), and it gets truly wonky, because (obviously) this isn't a discussion where anybody is suggesting that rpgs don't create stories, but rather a discussion about what aspects of an rpg (specifically, focus on mechanics or flavour) work best toward that goal.I.e., given the question, &quot;Is mechanic-first or flavour-first the best way to structure an rpg to gain the greatest level of satisfaction?&quot; the answer herein espoused is &quot;They both tell stories, so there is no distinction.&quot;Let's go back to Old and New Basketball.&nbsp; Following the logic espoused above, not only does it become &quot;wrong&quot; to suggest that, say, New Basketball is better than Old due to the shotclock, but it is wrong to even suggest that there is an &quot;Old&quot; and &quot;New&quot; basketball.&nbsp; Neither is fundamentally opposed to playing with a basketball on a basketball court, so if someone tries to discuss a distinction between the two, the point may be taken as nonsensical.Colour me unimpressed by this line of reasoning.RCEDIT:&nbsp; BTW, satisfaction and fun are not co-equal.&nbsp; There are a great many things in life that might be fun without being satisfying, and likewise a great many that might be satisfying without being fun.&nbsp; Judging everything on the basis of &quot;fun&quot; alone is likely to cause a great deal of dissatisfaction.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 4463041, member: 18280"] Cool. Imagine the poor fool wondering if he should just eat whatever food is offered, or become a vegetarian. There is no distinction, we are told, because both meat and vegetables are food. Now, add into the mix the actual topic (i.e., mechanics-first or flavour-first design), and it gets truly wonky, because (obviously) this isn't a discussion where [i]anybody[/i] is suggesting that rpgs don't create stories, but rather a discussion about [i]what aspects[/i] of an rpg (specifically, focus on mechanics or flavour) work best toward that goal. I.e., given the question, "Is mechanic-first or flavour-first the best way to structure an rpg to gain the greatest level of satisfaction?" the answer herein espoused is "They both tell stories, so there is no distinction." Let's go back to Old and New Basketball. Following the logic espoused above, not only does it become "wrong" to suggest that, say, New Basketball is better than Old due to the shotclock, but it is wrong to even suggest that there is an "Old" and "New" basketball. Neither is fundamentally opposed to playing with a basketball on a basketball court, so if someone tries to discuss a distinction between the two, the point may be taken as nonsensical. Colour me unimpressed by this line of reasoning. RC EDIT: BTW, satisfaction and fun are not co-equal. There are a great many things in life that might be fun without being satisfying, and likewise a great many that might be satisfying without being fun. Judging everything on the basis of "fun" alone is likely to cause a great deal of dissatisfaction. [/QUOTE]

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