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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GlaziusF" data-source="post: 4465209" data-attributes="member: 74166">I'm wondering if you understand what you're talking about, in terms of logic.Go back to wherever you learned about ad ignorantiam and reread it carefully. It's a double-edged sword. You can't call something true because it hasn't been proven false, but you also can't call something false because it hasn't been proven true.To get all AEIO about it, Sometimes True does not imply Never False, and likewise Sometimes False does not imply Never True.For example:This is an example of a Sometimes False that you are trying to get a Never True from. You can't see how to build a model that works with the mechanics, so you take that as proof that no one ever can....you mean that the game mechanics work just like actual real-world mechanics? Like the ideal gas law or conservation of momentum or the law of gravity? They're just equations. They don't actually simulate anything, aside from the abstract relationships of mathematics. But when we plug enough values in them to activate The Power Of Tautology, then they do. And "plugging in" is just pretending with numbers.I know this is going to sound stupid, but "death" doesn't mean exactly what you think it means either. The effects of death, under the rules, are pretty much unconsciousness plus: you can't spend your own healing surges, and nobody else can let you spend them as a free action either. There's still one round left where a high-test healing utility might be able to get you up and moving, but after that, no. You need to have a ritual performed on you before you can stand up again, and you'll have to deal with some lingering weakness until you shake all the cobwebs out. "Comatose" is also consistent with this. Or heck, if you get rocked into it by a psychic assault, you're a prisoner in your own mind. Cold damage? Hypothermia. Your soul may not have gone off to Asgard for parties with elf chicks in hot tubs warmed by the burning of unjust laws, but you're unreachable by anything short of ritual healing since your brain has jumped its tracks and can't get back on its own.I said you only need to suffer one obvious wound, and that's when you're bloodied, but that's not entirely true - if you get down to -bloodied at some point there you have taken an apparently lethal wound, so that you haven't even got a chance to get up on your own. At least not usually.If you wanted to pour in an extra mechanic you could probably say that if you get down to -bloodied, beyond the "death penalty" in the ritual you hop on a "disease track" type structure with a penalty to hit points or healing surges or something and need to make an Endurance check during an extended rest to shake that off. If we want to be all Princess Bride about it, you're only ever "mostly dead". And Inigo popped either an alternate level 22 or his destiny utility, from a destiny we haven't seen yet, to return to maximum hit points the turn after he was skewered by the six-fingered man, who was obviously some kind of rogue. But the utility lasted only until the end of the encounter, after which point he was either dying or dead.Eh, probably not. The problem with mechanics is that you can pretty easily imagine counterexamples. I mean, consider an ice sculpture shaped like a plus sign, standing on end on a marble slab. Now imagine it slowly melting into a puddle of water on the slab. Now imagine that water rising up and refreezing into a five-pointed star.Congratulations, you just violated the second law of thermodynamics with your brain. Any mechanic is going to limit the range of imagination consistent with that mechanic to some degree. That's just the way it goes. I'd rather have less limited imagination.I mean, I can use the exact 4E mechanics to run a campaign based on the surface of a space tree. In space. Where metals are as rare and precious as gems, and everything is organic. Just change the names of money and gear, and give the powers with metal-based names different ones, and really I think that'd about do it.</blockquote>

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