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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4468154" data-attributes="member: 710">I have no doubt that people have problems with the healing surge mechanic.One "last-ditch-effort" approach might be: All healing is magic, just like martial powers are some kind of magic. In the world of 4E, the inspiring words of a leader can literally mend wounds.Might sound bad, since it creates a very specific world, where no one is entirely mundane. Well, it worked for Earthdawn. But the previous hit point model, is it so different? 3E basically implied a big industry around selling Wands of Cure LIght Wounds to adventurers, and made religious warriors the only source of meaningful healing. Heck, even a character superbly gifted in the Heal skill wouldn't be able to do what a simple magical spell would. Yes, true, there are non-magical heroes, but without magical aid, they are helpless. Maybe the worlds of previous editions "evolved" to the magical world of 4E? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />---Ablative Hit Points Model facilitate a high combat density. Each individual combat and strike is unlikely to kill someone, so you get a high degree of predictability and can play each combat tactically. So, it's hard to get away from ablative hit points if you want to keep that. Do we want to keep that?My personal answer is yes, we do. If you disagree, consider whether this is where this is the route you can see D&D going, too.Even ablative hit points must be restored. The previous approach assumed that you could only use long rests or magic to heal. But this required you to have a magical healer in the group. The entire system rests on the availability of cleric and cleric-like characters. If you remove them, you change how the game can be played.Do we want to change how the game is played entirely on "flavor" decisions which characters our setting or the party uses? My answer would be know. We'd like a robust system that does support each flavor equally well and facilitates similar gameplay. If you disagree, consider whether this is a route you think D&D is safe to ignore.There are some other contraints I can think off:- Ease of Play - Allowing threat of death per encounter, but still support multiple threatening encounters in a short timeframe. I think these (among many others) where constraints the 4E designers worked on. Do you disagree with the constraints? Then I don't feel the need to discuss further with you, since we're really going far apart in what we want to play when we play D&D. There's nothing wrong with it, but whatever you come up with for hit points system breaks constraints I don't want to go without. If you agree or can at least accept these constraints - What would you suggest, if we add the constraint: "At any point we want to be able to look a the characters statistics and determine whether he is injured, dying, bruised or fine."Here's an idea of mine: A Wound/Vitality System. Forget the stupid stuff from Starwars Saga where criticals went to Wound. That's not what we want. But we want to distinguish between real injuries and morale/fatigue damage.One idea: - Each time you're bloodied, you take a wound. This wound is superficial, if could grow worse, but if you go above bloodied before you reach 0 hit points or less, the wound is gone. (I don't want it to stay since you can go bloodied very often - you could do without this rule, or you could say that it only happens once per combat instead of the regeneration rule)- Each time you're below 0 hit points, you take a wound. This one is real. It might stop bleeding and stuff, but it's still visibly there. if you go above 0 hit points, it stays, but you "soldier" on. - Each time you fail your death save, you take another wound, representing the wound growing worse. If you fail 3 times in a row, you die from that wound.- If you have taken a number of wounds equal to your constitution score, you drop dying.- After each extended rest, you can spend two healing surges that day to recover one wound. Using the Heal skill (DC 10 + number of wounds) allows you to regain two wounds instead (still only at two surges.) Since it happens after the extended rest, you have to go with less healing surges this day.- In addition, create a ritual that uses the Heal Skill. Make a Heal Check. DC 10 heals 1 wound, DC 20 2 wounds, and DC 30 3 wounds, at the expense of one Healing Surge each.</blockquote>

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