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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GlaziusF" data-source="post: 4471136" data-attributes="member: 74166">Originally I ignored it because it seemed like a nonsensical question, like a football coach trying to use one of his timeouts during pre-game warmups. There's nothing in the rules explicitly preventing it, of course, but I don't feel obliged to try to make narrative sense out of nonsensical player decisions.There are four things I can think of that could cause players to lose healing surges when they're at full HP. <ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Worsening effects of a disease after an extended rest.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Being affected by a power that reduces healing surges but not hit points.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Taking "environmental damage" during a long-term skill challenge.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Drinking a potion that requires you to spend a healing surge. Potions in the PHB all restore hit points, but there are several that have other effects, such as elemental resistance, in the Adventurer's Vault.</li> </ol>In all cases these represent weakening, exhaustion, or draining that doesn't directly affect combat staying power but does hurt your ability to recover.Mulling this over, I may have hit on something here.Conan doesn't get hamstrung by an assassin with a curved serrated dagger because REH rolls a 96 on the Random Narrative Events table. Nor does REH then think "Aw man! In the next scene I was gonna have Conan fight a running battle on the rooftops with the serpent cultists! What am I gonna do now?"Conan's wounds are part of the plot, either because they were conceived as part of the outline before REH sat down to write, or because the idea came to him as he was writing and he thought he could work it in. More importantly, if the idea does come to him to injure the Cimmerian, REH can take the time to think about how to work it into the plot without it detracting from your enjoyment of the book Xty years later.Trying to put lasting wounds into a the universal random conflict resolution system does bring up the "what am I gonna do now" problem. I don't know of anybody who makes up even a simple proto-story expecting that at any time it could be interrupted because the character involved had his spleen ripped out by a Kobold Stickpicker.That's why, if you wanted to put a "lasting wound" system into 4E, I would argue that it should go one level up - the DM should either bestow lasting wounds by plot fiat, or decide to place monsters that could cause them a la the Bugbear Legbreaker. Randomness can still adjudicate whether they happen and how quickly the characters recover, but the DM will - or should - consider the possibility the characters will want to recover more carefully than if it could happen with a low probability at any time.But as it is, hit points don't model lasting wounds, and I think I've outlined a good reason why not.</blockquote>

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