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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4472987" data-attributes="member: 18280">Link it when you do it.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Oh, and due to a forked thread by MerricB, just to be clear:I am not sure how what I said turned into the "startling suggestion that 4e has been designed so that characters won't die". I certainly said that I don't find healing surges to be a good mechanic, due to simulation problems, and I offered some alternatives. And I certainly responded to Hussar's outrage that he should have to have his "fun" abrogated by the consequences of his decisions.Saying that the game he seems to want seems to be Candyland =/= saying 4e is Candyland.If you examine my posts concerning the 4e combat system, even going back before the release, based upon what was revealed as it was revealed, you will see that I have said that I expect (once the initial shine of 4e wears off) that it will be deadlier than 3e. This is because the shift in paradigm narrows the window of what a "challenging" fight is. Once players get used to the system, they are bound to see that anything outside that window is meaningless in terms of the game, pushing the DM to create ever more deadly encounters to engage them.Conversely, 4e hasn't gotten rid of the "prop the players up" meme that appeared in 2e. Like 3e, the design paradigm seems to have goals that are sometimes in conflict with each other. The result is that it is quite easy (in either system) to create games that offer no real challenge to the players.The binary nature of "Really deadly or really easy" is made worse by a move away from the attrition-based paradigm, which limits the amount to which less dire consequences than death affect the PCs. Likewise, clear-cut encounters (as opposed to the chance of wandering monsters extending an encounter beyond PC expectations) limit the amount to which less dire encounters affect the PCs. Ultimately, I believe that once the "shine" has worn off 4e, it will tend to produce campaigns that are either overwhelmingly deadly or overwhelmingly safe. The design seems (IMHO) to offer very little middle ground between these extremes.Of course, I may be wrong. The future will tell. It always does.RCOh, yeah, and Aaarrrr!  It be talk like a scurvy pirate day, ye boyos!</blockquote>

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