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<blockquote data-quote="LostSoul" data-source="post: 4478172" data-attributes="member: 386">I think I might have to quote out of order to see if I get where you're coming from.&nbsp; Maybe I'm off-base; if so, sorry about that!How do you define what should happen?Should I die right away when poisoned?&nbsp; What if I'm hit with a Finger of Death or Disintegrate?&nbsp; What if the hit point mechanics say that, if the magic killing ray doesn't drop me to -x hit points, I'm not dead?&nbsp; Does that mean the magic ray didn't work the way it should, or that I wasn't actually hit by it?Maybe that's it: you want the game system to make you feel the fear that your character does.I still don't see why cause and effect doesn't work the way it should.&nbsp; I think the game is abstract enough so that the players can make cause and effect or the world work for them.What it doesn't do is put the player in the mind of the character.&nbsp; There's an extra step there, when you use the mechanics.&nbsp; You still have to describe what the hell just happened in the fiction.&nbsp; Maybe that extra step is what's off-putting about 4e.That's cool.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="LostSoul, post: 4478172, member: 386"] I think I might have to quote out of order to see if I get where you're coming from. Maybe I'm off-base; if so, sorry about that! How do you define what [i]should[/i] happen? Should I die right away when poisoned? What if I'm hit with a Finger of Death or Disintegrate? What if the hit point mechanics say that, if the magic killing ray doesn't drop me to -x hit points, I'm not dead? Does that mean the magic ray didn't work the way it should, or that I wasn't actually hit by it? Maybe that's it: you want the game system to make [i]you[/i] feel the fear that your character does. I still don't see why cause and effect doesn't work the way it should. I think the game is abstract enough so that the players can make cause and effect or the world work for them. What it doesn't do is put the player in the mind of the character. There's an extra step there, when you use the mechanics. You still have to describe what the hell just happened in the fiction. Maybe that extra step is what's off-putting about 4e. That's cool. [/QUOTE]

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