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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Smeelbo" data-source="post: 4671728" data-attributes="member: 81898">A sure sign of a weak argument. If it is "obvious," then it needn't be made explicitly, and by implication, anyone who disagrees must be stupid.Other than declaring this to be the case, do you have any text, in either the PHB, DMG, or Errata, to support this assertion? Reading, I don't find any.Nothing on PHB 178-180 supports your argument.Again, nothing to support the principle you are arguing. On the other hand:In this case, the specific text of Fleeting Ghost overrides the general case of the errata for Stealth.Argument by analogy is a classic logical fallacy. To say Nimble Fingers is "like" Fleeting Ghost, and therefore arguments made about Nimble Fingers apply to Fleeting Ghost is nothing more than flummery. The analogy is weak in any case. A Stealth check only ever accomplishes one thing, becoming or staying hidden, whereas Thievery checks may accomplish a variety of very distinct ends.This is the correct argument to make, namely that the specifics of Fleeting Ghost override the general case of this clause, which upon reading, seems a very reasonable interpretation. Fleeting Ghost and Secret Stride are not identical however. Fleeting Ghost creates a move action that is an exception to Keeping Still, whereas Secret Stride removes the movement penalty to all Stealth checks unless a Run action is taken. Secret Stride applies to other forms of movement except running, such as shifting, or moving as part of another action, like a charge, whereas Fleeting Ghost only applies when that power is used as a move action. In any case, I do not find that Eldorin's main argument, that powers never let you accomplish something not specifically allowed, has not been shown to be supported by the rules. His implicit argument, that Fleeting Ghost overrides Keeping Still, and not Becoming Hidden is a much better argument, and I agree. Smeelbo</blockquote>

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