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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1536680" data-attributes="member: 3146">Then you're nuts.Even if you have an ideal situation for the widened cone of cold, you're going to do what, 15d6 damage? Assuming a failed save and average damage rolls, that works out to 52.5 points of damage. By the time you can cast 8th level spells, typical foes will have at least 100+ hit points (caster types) to 250+ hit points. The cone of cold does nothing to prevent them attacking back. So, you're looking at all of your foes probably surviving for at least two rounds with caster types starting to drop on round 3 or 4 and everyone getting great-cleaved by round 4 (round 5 if your foes toss a mass heal or something on the group).On the other hand, let's see what happens with a chained Fleshshiver. Assume that all the foes make the save (if they don't, they're out of action for the entire combat--nauseated means they'll only get move actions, so the only way they'll hurt you is quickened spells and AoOs). So they're stunned for one round. In a best case scenario, they're a group of foes with class levels. When they're stunned, the fighters, clerics, and rogues, drop their weapons (and your allies are probably able to position themselves to get AoOs when they pick them up). While the front line is stunned, your fighters can run to the back and gack the wizard. After that, they start falling like dominoes. But let's take a less optimal scenario. Now, you're fighting a deadly group of foes who are all physically powerful and some of whom have deadly spell like abilities. While your foes are stunned, you get some battlefield control spells off (block two of them out with a wall of force, put another two  in an acid fog and block that off with a blade barrier, then move your fighters up to the last couple. But let's speculate that you are willing to cast the spell more than once. In that instance, you win. Your party can probably kill one or two of your foes per round when you know you don't have to worry about defense, so within 4 rounds, all of your foes are dead and probably had no chance to inflict damage on you.The only time a widened cone of cold would be better is if you're facing a vast horde of creatures with 50-100 hit points. And, in that situation, you probably aren't worried anyway (since odds are good that they don't seriously threaten you).</blockquote>

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