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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7749229" data-attributes="member: 996">Now that you mention it, I do recall Storyteller had a cooperative successes rule of some sort, I remember using it in M:t's.  But it was like the complex skill checks of 3e, same skill, accumulating successes.    Not elaborate, so much, it is still just accumulating successes.  The mechanucal differences are that multiple skills are involved, and the 3 failures.  The conceptual difference is more pronounced in that it's not a single task, but a cooperative effort, in the abstract.  You can put a lot of interest into an SC, with incremental effects for failure & success - the best ones were like mini games in themselves.  You can also leave it at flat accumulation of successes & failures that's pretty blah.And the math was badly off at first, and the early examples had some issues. Yep, the Druid got cure light at 1st instead of 2nd, the bard joined the ranks of healers......and then there was the WoCLW... Yep, there was a stark divide in teactions between new players & storyteller/indie types, OT1H, and longtime & returning D&Ders on the other.   One optimization theorem was that the all-Striker party was supreme.  It didn't play out in practice, they were viable, but 'brittle.'  Off turn actions really kicked in at Paragon, the first time a group got that far, it was taxing, but you got a handle on it before long.  Essentials did take the game back to more varied turn complexity.  A mid-heroic wizard(witch) early in my campaign was notorious for 15-min turns, while the Rogue(thief) in the party went faster. If you use D&D as a simulation, you get a very strange world  - but we had a long time to get used to some of that weirdness, and 4e whipped it out from under us.I've found worlds to feel more real early in an ed, before I've completely sussed out the new system.  I noticed that with both 3e & 4e, but the latter didn't take nearly as long. It was as nothing compared to rules lawyering I was accustomed to in 3.5 - or was guilty of in 1e. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Nah, common variant, no worries. There's the AT & EK, they're 1/3rd casters.  I think we've seen a sort of half-caster Artificer.  Full casters are a better chassis for any sort if support class, though, and that pattern is more 5e-apropriate than the original magic-item factories...</blockquote>

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