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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7749606" data-attributes="member: 6696971">There are some problems with what you've written above.Back in 2006 and 2007 when 4e was being designed, WoW was at Vanilla and Burning Crusades.  At that point in its history you're looking at Cooldown schedules almost universally at the following intervals:6 seconds (standard specials)15 seconds (nonstandard specials or specials that interfaced with/required other abilities)30 seconds (short term cooldowns)1 minute (mid-term cooldowns)3 minutes (major cooldowns or build-defining cooldowns that were typically 31 point talents)6 minutes (eg major-er cooldowns that were typically build-neutral but class-defining)10 minutes (eg Rebirth or in-combat rez)Depending on the class function/utility, build, damage/threat/healing rotation, you would have some number of these.  Most boss fights were in the neighborhood of 6-12 minutes (depending on the fight, the skill of your players/execution, and the construction of your raid group).  In no way did the WoW endgame raid environment cooldown setup (which was completely asymmetrical across classes, unlike AEDU) resemble the 4e paradigm.  You had nothing resembling cross-class, or even cross-build resource scheduling symmetry (like in 4e).  Further, the paradigm wasn't remotely reminiscent (on paper or in play) of at-will (A), once/scene (E), once/adventure or day (D).  You had a mish-mash of:* Specials-spamming (dozens and dozens of deployments)* short term CD timing to coincide with other abilities (10+ to optimize payload)* mid-term CDs (6-8 deployments which were pretty much universally for utility or an assist in managing some aspect of an offensive/support rotation)* long-term CDs several times (3-4) for (pretty much universally for massive damage/healing spikes/AoE or survivability)* your huge CDs (should you even ave them at all...several classes/builds didn't) once or twice or not at all if the situation couldn't leverage themSo, yeah.  Under even the slightest of rigor in examination, one can see that 4e and WoW's resource scheduling weren't like each other (in the important aspects of 1 cross-class symmetry of scheduling, 2 scheduling analogue generally, and 3 fiction/scheduling relationship).  Again, very, very, very superficially like WoW and like dozens of other games/media.  I never saw people who (a) liked/played/understood WoW and (b) liked/played/understood 4e make this comparison.  I only saw it from edition warriors who had contempt for one or both games and were ignorant of one or both paradigms because it could be easily weaponized to call 4e shallow and get like-minded ignorant and angry edition warriors to disingenuously repeat the meme.4e combat, when run (both GM and players) correctly/coherently by people who knew what they were doing resembled something much closer to a thematic, fiction-relevant (short-term and long-term stakes and relevant, dynamic fictional positioning) game of opposing M;tG teams with some sort of wild-card feature in play (where stunting/terrain would come into play).  It felt nothing from a mechanical overhead perspective or a general feel/ambiance of a WoW raid.</blockquote>

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