Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7750664" data-attributes="member: 22779">oh, what the hell.To me, virtually all the criticisms of 4e are pretty much self-indulgent twaddle.&nbsp; For evidence, I simply point to 5e and 5e's popularity.There are almost no criticisms of 4e that you can make that don't equally apply to 5e.&nbsp; Yet, 5e is heralded as the second coming of D&amp;D and 4e gets pilloried.&nbsp; FOR EXACTLY THE SAME STUFF.HP's?&nbsp; Guess what, there's no difference, really between 4e and 5e.&nbsp; Sure, you don't have as much in combat healing in 5e as 4e, but, that's about the only difference.&nbsp; Any &quot;Schroedinger's HP&quot; garbage equally applies because I can fail two death saves, be 1 HP of damage away from instantly being killed and 8 hours later, I'm not only better, but I'm completely undamaged.&nbsp; Arguments about the &quot;level of abstraction&quot; are just self serving.&nbsp; Pick a point where &quot;the abstraction is too much&quot; and then ignore any counter argument.&nbsp; It's intellectually bankrupt.&nbsp; It's two smurfs arguing over who is more blue.&nbsp; But, man, is it really, really important to make sure that your favorite edition just happens to fall within that &quot;level of abstraction&quot; and that other edition doesn't.&nbsp; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid&nbsp; &nbsp; :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" />MMO comparisons?&nbsp; Yeah, guess what?&nbsp; 5e HAS encounter powers.&nbsp; 5e HAS abstract powers.&nbsp; The argument was always, &quot;Why can't my fighter do X any time he wants?&quot;&nbsp; Well, gee, I'm looking at the Battlemaster right now and every single issue you had with 4e exists right there in 5e.&nbsp; Look, I get not liking 4e.&nbsp; That's groovy.&nbsp; But, ffs, just admit that you don't like the edition and move on and quit trying to &quot;prove&quot; that there is anything of any actual substance to your dislike.&nbsp; Revel in it.&nbsp; You don't like it.&nbsp; Great.&nbsp; That is perfectly fine.&nbsp; But, don't pretend that your dislike is somehow grounded in facts and if everyone would just &quot;see&quot; what you see, we'd all agree with you.&nbsp; Because, otherwise, it's so hypocritical to sing hosannas to 5e while criticizing 4e.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7750664, member: 22779"] oh, what the hell. To me, virtually all the criticisms of 4e are pretty much self-indulgent twaddle. For evidence, I simply point to 5e and 5e's popularity. There are almost no criticisms of 4e that you can make that don't equally apply to 5e. Yet, 5e is heralded as the second coming of D&D and 4e gets pilloried. FOR EXACTLY THE SAME STUFF. HP's? Guess what, there's no difference, really between 4e and 5e. Sure, you don't have as much in combat healing in 5e as 4e, but, that's about the only difference. Any "Schroedinger's HP" garbage equally applies because I can fail two death saves, be 1 HP of damage away from instantly being killed and 8 hours later, I'm not only better, but I'm completely undamaged. Arguments about the "level of abstraction" are just self serving. Pick a point where "the abstraction is too much" and then ignore any counter argument. It's intellectually bankrupt. It's two smurfs arguing over who is more blue. But, man, is it really, really important to make sure that your favorite edition just happens to fall within that "level of abstraction" and that other edition doesn't. :uhoh: MMO comparisons? Yeah, guess what? 5e HAS encounter powers. 5e HAS abstract powers. The argument was always, "Why can't my fighter do X any time he wants?" Well, gee, I'm looking at the Battlemaster right now and every single issue you had with 4e exists right there in 5e. Look, I get not liking 4e. That's groovy. But, ffs, just admit that you don't like the edition and move on and quit trying to "prove" that there is anything of any actual substance to your dislike. Revel in it. You don't like it. Great. That is perfectly fine. But, don't pretend that your dislike is somehow grounded in facts and if everyone would just "see" what you see, we'd all agree with you. Because, otherwise, it's so hypocritical to sing hosannas to 5e while criticizing 4e. [/QUOTE]

Verification