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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7750953" data-attributes="member: 42582">But not so tired that you can't still move at your maximum pace, carry your maximum load, climb walls just as well as you could before entering melee, etc!But suppose we downplay the "weakened, tired" aspect and emphasise Gygax's other elements - luck, divine favour, magical protections, etc. Even here there are multiple subsytems that don't interact - saving throws, as per the quote upthread about poison saves, are a separate subsystem for this stuff, and then magical protections and divine favour can also be the result of magic items, spells etc.4e closes some of these gaps - there is generally no distinction, for instance, between the threats of physical harm that AD&D handled via saving throws and the threats of physical harm that AD&D handled via hit points; and as [MENTION=6873517]Jay Verkuilen[/MENTION] (I think) mentioned upthread, it uses healing surges to handle exhaustion.But 4e opens up at least one new gap (or, perhaps, generalises it from the 3E barbarian's rage) - namely, limited use non-magical capabilities that manifest as martial encounter and daily powers, and action points.Putting everything into a common pool can reduce the odd (non-)synergies between abstractions, but of course also reduces moving parts which itself has implications for game play.3E is my personal least favourite for this stuff: it replaces poison saves (which, as Gygax describes in the quoted passage) were a type of luck mechanic, with Fortitude saves - but Fortitude is a mechanic largely independent of the hit point system; and poison doesn't do hp damage but stat damage. So your magical protections and luck stop you getting squashed by a hill giant's club (a mid-to-upper level PC can soak the 20 hp easily enough) but don't help agasint the STR damage (and resultant penalties to attack and damage, to maximum load, to athletics attempts, etc) from a giant spider's poison. But that poison, while it debilitates you, can't kill you - at worse it leaves you unable to move. (But until that point doesn't slow you at all.)</blockquote>

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