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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jay Verkuilen" data-source="post: 7751157" data-attributes="member: 6873517">IMO this is a huge part of it. 4E in many respects was a vastly more consistent game than prior versions of D&D, absolutely. Its very presentation rubbed that difference in the face of experienced players. I mentioned the issue. The thing about 3E and 5E is that conditions don't seem to be nearly as common as 4E. 4E certainly had fewer total number of conditions than 3E but many more classes dished them out than before. In prior versions of the game they were relatively rare except for the caster characters or, of course, monsters. Nearly any character class dished out conditions and many builds were intricately synergized to make use of conditions granted by someone else. This was cool in many ways, but like a lot of things they could get to be too much. Some powers would have conditions that superseded another one, such as slow being superseded by immobilization. A lot of times I'd find myself thinking of whether I wanted to use a particular power due to the fact that I might end up blocking out someone else's or making mine not matter. Most notably, I'd get annoyed playing a defender in a party with another defender because people would constantly supersede my mark. Yeah, that's on them I suppose, but the thing is that the system really demanded a lot of players; quite a few I played with didn't seem to be up to the job. Analogy: Sometimes I want a burger with a plain bun, some good deli cheese, and mustard with a decent lager or ale, not 48 day aged wagyu beef with balsamic reduction sauce drizzled out of a squeeze bottle on brioche topped by microgreens and raclette and IPA made with yeast from the brewer's beard. IMO 5E is more like the basic burger done really well (for the most part) whereas 4E was much more like the 48 day aged wagyu in terms of all the options. To be clear, I don't have a ton of nostalgia for 1E's pretentious bizarreness and and BTB 2E's slightly cleaned up version. That's kind of like making overcooked burgers back in the '70s with supermarket meat and Kraft slices and drinking Schlitz. I'm happy to have modern innovations, but 4E (for my taste) was too much. I will say this: I'm quite sure coping with Gygax's writing helped my GRE Verbal score. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></blockquote>

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