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<blockquote data-quote="Jay Verkuilen" data-source="post: 7751160" data-attributes="member: 6873517">Nope, but the very fact that many things that had been part of the game for a long time were basically dumped out---heck they changed the entire cosmology and alignment system!---was jarring, to say the least. Again, as I've said before, there were cool aspects to the 4E cosmology and a lot of 4E's design. However, when a brand so drastically decides to change core parts of its identity and then rub its audience's collective faces in those changes... look out. Oh, I played a lot of 3.X, mostly 3.5, and ran a good bit of it too so I recall. I'm not saying 3E didn't have its burdens. Notoriously, high level &quot;fighter math&quot; could get pretty nuts, especially for players who were slow at mental arithmetic. That said, I don't ever recall needing the likes of condition chips to keep track of all the conditions or having to go through a play loop where I'd check for synergies and then figure out what conditions I had on me that blocked me from doing things basically every round, though. Yes, tactically savvy players would do that and it was indeed one of the things that 4E did very well. Unfortunately, a lot of folks wouldn't remember without prompting, get greedy for immediate damage, or would forget due to long turn length, which meant it was a burden to keep them from busting up carefully laid plans. 4E with a group of really tactically savvy players capable of keeping turns fast was fun for those reasons, though I still felt it was very wargamey. One reason I embraced 5E so much was how much faster its turn length seemed to be.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jay Verkuilen, post: 7751160, member: 6873517"] Nope, but the very fact that many things that had been part of the game for a long time were basically dumped out---heck they changed the entire cosmology and alignment system!---was jarring, to say the least. Again, as I've said before, there were cool aspects to the 4E cosmology and a lot of 4E's design. However, when a brand so drastically decides to change core parts of its identity and then rub its audience's collective faces in those changes... look out. Oh, I played a lot of 3.X, mostly 3.5, and ran a good bit of it too so I recall. I'm not saying 3E didn't have its burdens. Notoriously, high level "fighter math" could get pretty nuts, especially for players who were slow at mental arithmetic. That said, I don't ever recall needing the likes of condition chips to keep track of all the conditions or having to go through a play loop where I'd check for synergies and then figure out what conditions I had on me that blocked me from doing things basically every round, though. Yes, tactically savvy players would do that and it was indeed one of the things that 4E did very well. Unfortunately, a lot of folks wouldn't remember without prompting, get greedy for immediate damage, or would forget due to long turn length, which meant it was a burden to keep them from busting up carefully laid plans. 4E with a group of really tactically savvy players capable of keeping turns fast was fun for those reasons, though I still felt it was very wargamey. One reason I embraced 5E so much was how much faster its turn length seemed to be. [/QUOTE]

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