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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7751366" data-attributes="member: 42582">My point is that I don't think it can be true both that "4e had the heavy hand of the game designer" and "the description of the Fireball spell is very close to the Moldvay basic one." The latter is true; hence the former, it seems to me, must be false.Another way to put it: I don't think the hand of the game designer becomes "heavier" because insstead of describing fireball as a 20' R burst of fire that does damage to creatures within it, the game describes it as an Area burst 3 that targets creatures.To me, this makes the contrast in terms of the "heavy hand of the game designer" harder to follow.The result of someone else's play experience - eg a ruling that Gygax or some other earlier GM made while playing the game - is being presented as input for someone else's play. So instead of playing your own game like Gygax et al did, the rulebook invites you to sing along with thepoay they already engaged in.Here's the text of the AD&D fireball spell; I've bolded the bits that olveraps with 4e and Basic D&D:A fireball is an explosive burst of flame, which detonates with a low roar, and delivers damage proportionate to the level of the magic-user who cast it, i.e. 1 six-sided die (d6) for each level of experience of the spell caster.[/b] Exception: Magic fireball wands deliver 6 die fireballs (6d6), magic staves with this capability deliver 8 die fireballs, and scroll spells of this type deliver a fireball of from 5 to 10 dice (d6 + 4) of damage. The burst of the fireball does not expend a considerable amount of pressure, and the burst will generally conform to the shape of the area in which it occurs, thus covering an area equal to its normal spherical volume. [The area which is covered by the fireball is a total volume of roughly 33,000 cubic feet (or yards)]. Besides causing damage to creatures, the fireball ignites all combustible materials within its burst radius, and the heat of the fireballwill melt soft metals such as gold, copper, silver, etc. Items exposed to the spell's effects must be rolled for to determine if they are affected. Items with a creature which makes its saving throw are considered as unaffected. The magic-user points his or her finger and speaks the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A streak flashes from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body prior to attaining the prescribed range, flowers into the fireball. If creatures fail their saving throws, they all take full hit point damage frqm the blast. Those who make saving throws manage to dodge, fall flat or roll aside, taking 1/2 the full hit point damage - each and every one within the blast area. The material component of this spell is a tiny ball composed of bat guano and sulphur.There's a lot of text there that, in my view, manifests the "heavy hand of the game designer". What does it add to the game to have a rule that the fireball detonates with a low roar? What causes the roar if there's no pressure? Why does this spell have its verbal and somatic components specified, when very few others do?I don't see how 4e can in any way be conisdefred more presecriptive than that.</blockquote>

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