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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7751488" data-attributes="member: 42582">I don't think the DMG says this.On page 80 there is the item saving throw chart, but other than descriptions of effect types (keywords, anyone?) there is no description of how to use the chart. The following page (p 81) does have a heading &quot;Item Saving Throws&quot;, but it only offers the following:These saving throws are self-explanatory in general. It is a case of either saving or failing. Potions and liquids which do not make their saving throws should be noted secretly by you - unless the player concerned has his or her character check to determine if the fluid was harmed. Such failure will not otherwise be notable without examination and testing.Furthermore, there are a few things on p 80 which suggests that the GM can call for item saving throws in circumstances other than when a player fails a saving throw. The first is that &quot;fall&quot;is a category, but falling in AD&amp;D doesn't normally involve a saving throw. Second, the entry for &quot;crushing blow&quot; says that this includes &quot;a blow from an ogre's or giant's weapon&quot;. Third, a normal blow includes &quot;an attack by a normal-strength opponent&quot;. Fourth, any item &quot;gains +5 on saving throws against attack forms in its own mode, i.e. blow vs. shield&quot;. It's not made clear when a GM might reasonably call for a save to see if a giant's blow smashes armour, or if a blocking shield is shattered (eg on any attack? on any hit? on a &quot;called shot&quot;, however eactly that would work?), but those cases are being contemplated by these rules.Anyway, the only place I know of in 1st ed AD&amp;D that suggests that if a character saves then his/her items are safe is the fireball entry. I have a feeling that 2nd ed&nbsp; AD&amp;D may have had an express rule to this effect, but I'm not sure as I haven't read much of the DMG for that edition.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7751488, member: 42582"] I don't think the DMG says this. On page 80 there is the item saving throw chart, but other than descriptions of effect types (keywords, anyone?) there is no description of how to use the chart. The following page (p 81) does have a heading "Item Saving Throws", but it only offers the following: [indent]These saving throws are self-explanatory in general. It is a case of either saving or failing. Potions and liquids which do not make their saving throws should be noted secretly by you - unless the player concerned has his or her character check to determine if the fluid was harmed. Such failure will not otherwise be notable without examination and testing.[/indent] Furthermore, there are a few things on p 80 which suggests that the GM can call for item saving throws in circumstances other than when a player fails a saving throw. The first is that "fall"is a category, but falling in AD&D doesn't normally involve a saving throw. Second, the entry for "crushing blow" says that this includes "a blow from an ogre's or giant's weapon". Third, a normal blow includes "an attack by a normal-strength opponent". Fourth, any item "gains +5 on saving throws against attack forms in its own mode, i.e. blow vs. shield". It's not made clear when a GM might reasonably call for a save to see if a giant's blow smashes armour, or if a blocking shield is shattered (eg on any attack? on any hit? on a "called shot", however eactly that would work?), but those cases are being contemplated by these rules. Anyway, the only place I know of in 1st ed AD&D that suggests that if a character saves then his/her items are safe is the fireball entry. I have a feeling that 2nd ed AD&D may have had an express rule to this effect, but I'm not sure as I haven't read much of the DMG for that edition. [/QUOTE]

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