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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7751831" data-attributes="member: 996">I can see that.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Though, 'regardless of how illogical it was' is, I think, one way in which 4e was evocative of the classic game, since old-school dungeons were notorious for quite crazy layouts and bizarro mixes of monsters & the like.     I thought it was PH2.... (which was 8 months in, not 9, my mistake)... looks like it may have been DMG2, so 2009, better'n a year, but I seem to remember using the idea in 3.5... I just can't find where it was introduced into 3.5, since 'Inherent bonus" was just one of the 18 or so named bonuses in that edition, and included the stat bonuses from manuals & the like, as well as, I'm sure, being used for magic-item-less games to fill in the lack of expected enhancement bonuses.I liked Inherent Bonuses quite a bit, actually. Don't misunderstand me: I don't mind the idea of either. What I dislike is the implementation. 4E's implementation of concentration was IMO much better than 5E's. Some spells cost you your minor action. Others cost you your action. If you had two things that worked on minor actions, well, goodbye to your action. It depended on what you were doing and wasn't just some kind of hard "because I said so!" limit. Yes, I agree, and the fact that rarity was next to illogical with little rhyme or reason didn't help. See for me I'd have accomplished it in a way that reinforced themes via imposing a cost rather than by a hard game mechanical limit. For instance, if you want to attune, have it start costing you healing surges or hit dice (or something). That keeps it inside the world.</blockquote>Ooh, I like that.  You attune an item, and part of your 'life force' is merged with it, no longer available for healing or other uses.  Creates a strong sense of attunement really being this potent metaphysical link, and is a very real mechanical price.   The fourth wall has it comin', IMHO.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Seriously, RPGs are something of a 4th-wall breaking hobby, to begin with, since players fill the roles of both the characters in a story interacting with the three walls, /and/ of the audience watching from behind the 4th wall.And, yeah, I liked milestones & like the escalation die (and icon relationships).  They all help capturing the flow of stories in genre, vs the more pragmatic way games will tend flow if you leave them with only simulation-style rules (modeling setting, being de-facto laws of physics) rather than also having narrative-enabling rules (modeling genre conventions and storytelling) and keeping all of those functional as rules, of a game, meant to actually be played by the rules, for fun ('gamist').   But, three is a mystically significant number![/QUOTE]

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