Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 1402927" data-attributes="member: 111">&quot;Grapple&quot; is not a weapon, it's a special attack.&nbsp; The fact that you can use &quot;WF: Grapple&quot; in no way makes it a weapon, at most, it makes it somewhat like a weapon in that you can take WF.There is no mention in &quot;Grapple&quot; of what weapon one use to start a grapple.&nbsp; You do &quot;to grab and hold your target.&quot;&nbsp; One would assume that means you are not attacking with a manufactured weapon - how does one grab and hold with a longsword, for example?&nbsp; But no mention is actually made of this - as written, you could make the melee touch attack with your longsword.&nbsp; Silly of course, but that is the was the rule is written.Grapple checks, on the other hand, are clearly made without any weapon modifiers(WF:Longsword, etc. do not apply) so it would make sense to apply WF: Grapple here, though that STILL does not make a grapple check a &quot;weapon.&quot;It really looks to me like anytime you can substitute a &quot;special attack&quot; for an attack that an attack from Flurry should be able to do that, too.Disarm, etc. can all be done with unarmed attacks (aka unarmed strikes).&nbsp; Even a Grapple can be started with unarmed strikes - at least nothing in the grapple rules indicates it is not started that way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Artoomis, post: 1402927, member: 111"] "Grapple" is not a weapon, it's a special attack. The fact that you can use "WF: Grapple" in no way makes it a weapon, at most, it makes it somewhat like a weapon in that you can take WF. There is no mention in "Grapple" of what weapon one use to start a grapple. You do "to grab and hold your target." One would assume that means you are not attacking with a manufactured weapon - how does one grab and hold with a longsword, for example? But no mention is actually made of this - as written, you could make the melee touch attack with your longsword. Silly of course, but that is the was the rule is written. Grapple checks, on the other hand, are clearly made without any weapon modifiers(WF:Longsword, etc. do not apply) so it would make sense to apply WF: Grapple here, though that STILL does not make a grapple check a "weapon." It really looks to me like anytime you can substitute a "special attack" for an attack that an attack from Flurry should be able to do that, too. Disarm, etc. can all be done with unarmed attacks (aka unarmed strikes). Even a Grapple can be started with unarmed strikes - at least nothing in the grapple rules indicates it is not started that way. [/QUOTE]

Verification