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<blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 1402963" data-attributes="member: 111">Really?&nbsp; But the rules for Grapple simple state you make a &quot;melee touch attack.&quot;&nbsp; Anything about whether that's done unarmed, or with your weapon, or even with WF:Grapple not RAW but an assumption about the RAW - an interpretation.WF: Grapple modifies either or both of:The initial melee attack role.The grapple checks.If a monk is starting a grapple (let;s say NOT with a Flurry) and has a BAB of 15 + 4 for DEX from Weapon Finesse (unarmed) what's his attack bonus for the melee touch attack.It might be 19 from Grapple as written, or it might be 15 if you assume the &quot;melee touch attack&quot; is some sort of special attack roll that does not use any weapon, even &quot;unarmed,&quot; which is certainly not stated in &quot;Grapple.&quot;In any case, I see your point.&nbsp; It requires re-writing Grapple to:&nbsp; The melee touch attack to start grapple is weaponless and does not include any modifiers based upon your weapons, including unarmed attack.&nbsp; WF: Grapple does add to this role, however, but not to grapple checks (obviously re-write this according to one;s personal belief about when WF:Grapple apllies.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Artoomis, post: 1402963, member: 111"] Really? But the rules for Grapple simple state you make a "melee touch attack." Anything about whether that's done unarmed, or with your weapon, or even with WF:Grapple not RAW but an assumption about the RAW - an interpretation. WF: Grapple modifies either or both of: The initial melee attack role. The grapple checks. If a monk is starting a grapple (let;s say NOT with a Flurry) and has a BAB of 15 + 4 for DEX from Weapon Finesse (unarmed) what's his attack bonus for the melee touch attack. It might be 19 from Grapple as written, or it might be 15 if you assume the "melee touch attack" is some sort of special attack roll that does not use any weapon, even "unarmed," which is certainly not stated in "Grapple." In any case, I see your point. It requires re-writing Grapple to: The melee touch attack to start grapple is weaponless and does not include any modifiers based upon your weapons, including unarmed attack. WF: Grapple does add to this role, however, but not to grapple checks (obviously re-write this according to one;s personal belief about when WF:Grapple apllies. [/QUOTE]

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