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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mmu1" data-source="post: 736237" data-attributes="member: 319">"A Flier that has average maneuverability would follow the same rules as anyone on the ground when it comes to avoiding hazards. They should have an "Average" skill check for such things, thus the +0. Just like ground-pounders get no bonus to phyical skill checks. You can take feats to make you more agile and "Acrobatic" (thus gaining bonuses to skills such as Balance and Tumble, which bring you closer to being "Perfect" in your motion."That's completely incorrect. Fliers with Average maneuverability have massive restrictions on how they can move in both two and three dimensions - they can't hover, can't fly backwards, need to move with a minimum forward speed or they'll stall, can't climb vertically... How is this comparable to a human walking in two dimensions? A human walking can stop in place, turn on a dime, make any change of direction, back up, side-step, etc.  A flyer with Average maneuverability can't do any of this, mainly because it always need to keep moving forward, which should translate into a pretty hefty penalty. On the other hand, a Perfect flier doesn't have to worry about any of this, and gets to make, for example, Tumble checks for avoiding AAO's unimpeded... By that doesn't mean it should have a huge bonus.Saying that they need the +8  because swimmers get it is trying to compare different mechanics... They gave that +8 to natural swimmers not because of maneuverability issues, but because a lot of them  can't breathe under water, and they wanted to make sure they wouldn't start drowning left and right.</blockquote>

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