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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5975373" data-attributes="member: 22779">Sorry, Elf Witch, I don't think I was quite clear in what I meant.Sure, you have to tailor your game to the group.  Of course.  But, my point is, the degree of tailoring changes significantly when dealing with casters or non-casters.  If I want to challenge a group that has no casters in it, I can easily do so with any number of environmental, combat, non-combat, exploration, or whatever scenarios.  After all, the PC's only have a very limited range of capablities to deal with whatever they are facing.For example, you example of lots of undead doesn't really matter to the non-caster party.  They deal with masses of undead the same way they deal with any mass of baddies.  Unless, of course, the undead are all flying and incorporeal, but, then, cleric or no cleric, they're likely boned either way.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />To a mundane party, how does a mass of zombies differ from a mass of orcs or anything else?  The problem is, with casters, several scenarios that would be normally challenging become trivial.  Crossing the mountains is an interesting scenario with a mundane party, but, takes a day or two with teleport.  As an example, in the Savage Tide Adventure Path, the group takes about six months to travel from their home base to the Isle of Dread.  It's a major undertaking with all sorts of fun stuff on the way.  Three levels later, it's two teleport spells to get home. This is where the problem of dependence becomes dominance.  What's the point of having our tricked out ship, spending all those ranks on sailing the ship, etc, when the wizard makes our ship obsolete?Now, you can continue to contrive scenarios where the group needs the ship (which is what the STAP does), but, again, we're running into a situation where it's not tailoring the game to the group, but tailoring the game to one or two characters within the group.In order to truly challenge the casters, you have to narrow down so much on what you can do as a DM.  Every adventure has to be written to specifically counter the capabilities of the casters or the casters run amok.  I don't want the wizard to "allow the team" to do anything.  I want the wizard to help and be helped by the team.</blockquote>

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