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For Nail - The Psion
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<blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 2268463" data-attributes="member: 5777"><p>yet again thanee your problem is misinterpreting and misrepresenting of the information given.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You will not read through discussions and so you dismiss them as silly? Read them.</p><p></p><p>To anyone else, I would suggest reading as you have time if you feel that there are balance issues. There are a lot of different things discussed to one degree or another. It takes a lot of time but it is worth it.</p><p></p><p>Plus, even if you still feel that they are not balanced at least you will have a better idea of what you have problems with.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, you havent actually even read the first post and yet you feel comfortable poking fun at it? Nice of you.</p><p></p><p>While the format is a bit off for the most part it is all right. There are a few that say things are all right, explain why, and then say if you are still having problems with them there are some easy changes to nerf it without having to remove it. We could only be so lucky if magic had the same thing, considering the huge number of broken spells.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Misrepresentation.</p><p></p><p>Hopefully others will actually read the arguements instead of focusing on specific lines taken out of context and bashed in an offhand manner.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Misrepresentation again.</p><p></p><p>Look, everyone knows that being able to choose elemental types is better than the arcane direct damage spells for the most part (yes, there are still arcane damage spells which are better). All this does is make direct damage more viable at higher levels. Arcane direct damage tends to suck right around level 7 or so and just gets worse from there on (except for a couple of notable examples).</p><p></p><p>Psions are better at blasting than the arcane types. Good. Arcane direct damage sucks and tends to be nonviable anyway.</p><p></p><p>Why is it that everytime psions are weaker than the arcane/divine counterparts it is ignored and the strengths are called out because, 'others cant do that as well!' Guess what, each type of magic has strengths and weaknesses. Mages typcially cant cure very well, psions can cure a little bit but not great, divine casters can heal incredibly well. Divine blasting spells and arcane blasting spells run the gambit from completely useless up to incredibly powerful, as do the psions. Typically the psions are more powerful because of versitility and not much else, but even they fall behind some of the arcane ones out there.</p><p></p><p>so, to recap, being able to change on the fly is nice yes, but it is only making it viable at higher levels. Just because someone sucks at direct damage doesnt mean everyone has to suck at it, just like because someone sucks at healing spells doesnt mean everyone has to suck at them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In order to get the dc boost you either have to pick the proper specialization or spend a feat. The creatures have to be within 15' of one another so if you are even able to hit 2 you are doing pretty well most of the time. If you are going to assume that you can hit 5 with it then I will assume you can hit 35 with fireball type spells, which is better at the same effective expenditure?</p><p></p><p>Still, at high levels you have a specialist power that has a 'very' hard to beat dc. Of course, it is only damage, and can still be saved against, and can be resisted/SR'd. Even with a failed save and using the d6+1 damage version and no resistance it averages out to be less than a full attack from a well specced fighter type will do to a single target. Ouch for the psion, even his more powerful direct damage is still just contributing and not ruling the day.</p><p></p><p>There are other mitigating factors for both side of that fighter type and psion doing damage, but the overall picture is there. People can say one or the other comes out ahead depending on certain circumstances, but that is part of the point, each has their own nitch but they both do roughly the same thing.</p><p></p><p>To restate though, energy missile is a specialist power so you choose to give up 5 other lists of powers or spend a feat to get it. That is a big drawback right there. Even then you get a power which the dc runs from being exactly the same to up to several points higher if you dump enough resources into it. Even then though it still gets a save (although a difficult to make save), still gets cut by resistances, might be killed by something that kills low level spells (spell turning anyone? globes?), hit by SR, and then has to drill through creatures hp who, when the save is getting really nice, can many hundreds from con alone.</p><p></p><p>But, it is better than a normal damage spell. Good, it took giving up other choices to get it. It 'should' be more powerful then.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd really love to believe that you are joking, but somehow I just cant see how that could be the case. if you wish to really contribute to such a subject please actually read the arguements given in those two threads. It will take some time, and not all of it is done incredibly well, but at least they have tried.</p><p></p><p>Hopefully some of my reemphasis on points that you have chosen to ignore will help others.</p><p></p><p>Also hopefully the above didnt come off too harsh. It is frustrating to put up something and then have someone read a couple of paragraphs out of hundreds of pages, pick out only a few specific lines, and then basically lie about it using a couple of lines out of context. It happens so much and so often elsewhere at least we could try to avoid it in the rules forum. We are all better than that right? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scion, post: 2268463, member: 5777"] yet again thanee your problem is misinterpreting and misrepresenting of the information given. You will not read through discussions and so you dismiss them as silly? Read them. To anyone else, I would suggest reading as you have time if you feel that there are balance issues. There are a lot of different things discussed to one degree or another. It takes a lot of time but it is worth it. Plus, even if you still feel that they are not balanced at least you will have a better idea of what you have problems with. So, you havent actually even read the first post and yet you feel comfortable poking fun at it? Nice of you. While the format is a bit off for the most part it is all right. There are a few that say things are all right, explain why, and then say if you are still having problems with them there are some easy changes to nerf it without having to remove it. We could only be so lucky if magic had the same thing, considering the huge number of broken spells. Misrepresentation. Hopefully others will actually read the arguements instead of focusing on specific lines taken out of context and bashed in an offhand manner. Misrepresentation again. Look, everyone knows that being able to choose elemental types is better than the arcane direct damage spells for the most part (yes, there are still arcane damage spells which are better). All this does is make direct damage more viable at higher levels. Arcane direct damage tends to suck right around level 7 or so and just gets worse from there on (except for a couple of notable examples). Psions are better at blasting than the arcane types. Good. Arcane direct damage sucks and tends to be nonviable anyway. Why is it that everytime psions are weaker than the arcane/divine counterparts it is ignored and the strengths are called out because, 'others cant do that as well!' Guess what, each type of magic has strengths and weaknesses. Mages typcially cant cure very well, psions can cure a little bit but not great, divine casters can heal incredibly well. Divine blasting spells and arcane blasting spells run the gambit from completely useless up to incredibly powerful, as do the psions. Typically the psions are more powerful because of versitility and not much else, but even they fall behind some of the arcane ones out there. so, to recap, being able to change on the fly is nice yes, but it is only making it viable at higher levels. Just because someone sucks at direct damage doesnt mean everyone has to suck at it, just like because someone sucks at healing spells doesnt mean everyone has to suck at them. In order to get the dc boost you either have to pick the proper specialization or spend a feat. The creatures have to be within 15' of one another so if you are even able to hit 2 you are doing pretty well most of the time. If you are going to assume that you can hit 5 with it then I will assume you can hit 35 with fireball type spells, which is better at the same effective expenditure? Still, at high levels you have a specialist power that has a 'very' hard to beat dc. Of course, it is only damage, and can still be saved against, and can be resisted/SR'd. Even with a failed save and using the d6+1 damage version and no resistance it averages out to be less than a full attack from a well specced fighter type will do to a single target. Ouch for the psion, even his more powerful direct damage is still just contributing and not ruling the day. There are other mitigating factors for both side of that fighter type and psion doing damage, but the overall picture is there. People can say one or the other comes out ahead depending on certain circumstances, but that is part of the point, each has their own nitch but they both do roughly the same thing. To restate though, energy missile is a specialist power so you choose to give up 5 other lists of powers or spend a feat to get it. That is a big drawback right there. Even then you get a power which the dc runs from being exactly the same to up to several points higher if you dump enough resources into it. Even then though it still gets a save (although a difficult to make save), still gets cut by resistances, might be killed by something that kills low level spells (spell turning anyone? globes?), hit by SR, and then has to drill through creatures hp who, when the save is getting really nice, can many hundreds from con alone. But, it is better than a normal damage spell. Good, it took giving up other choices to get it. It 'should' be more powerful then. I'd really love to believe that you are joking, but somehow I just cant see how that could be the case. if you wish to really contribute to such a subject please actually read the arguements given in those two threads. It will take some time, and not all of it is done incredibly well, but at least they have tried. Hopefully some of my reemphasis on points that you have chosen to ignore will help others. Also hopefully the above didnt come off too harsh. It is frustrating to put up something and then have someone read a couple of paragraphs out of hundreds of pages, pick out only a few specific lines, and then basically lie about it using a couple of lines out of context. It happens so much and so often elsewhere at least we could try to avoid it in the rules forum. We are all better than that right? ;) [/QUOTE]
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