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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 2269387" data-attributes="member: 5777">They explain why it isnt overpowered and then they say that if you still feel it is too much for whatever reason that there are a few reasonable ways to nerf it instead of having to remove it entirely.That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Just like if someone had a problem with cure light wounds healing a full d8+5 for merely a first level spell, if this was a problem in some peoples eyes a reasonable interpretation might be to limit it to d8+1 instead of saying that it doesnt exist in the game or making it second level.Energy missile is fine, but some people like to freak out without enough cause. Hence the extra blurb. If you feel the need to make fun of them for it then I am sorry you feel that way, there really isnt any need for it and it definately seems overly harsh for you to do.So no, not overpowered, but if for some reason someone thought that it would be for their games for whatever reason they gave an out without having to remove it.Actually, I would say that your position is what has been disproven repeatidly, and that is the problem I am having in coming up with a response to your accusation. Your stance just doesnt make any sense, but I will try to come up with something rational in response.Note that the psion has no zero level powers, they were all either gotten rid of or turned into higher level powers.So yes, counting detect magic as an actual gain over the psion makes perfect sense. Comparing it to a 9th level spell/power is just trying to confuse the actual issue here.Saying that one guy has a total of X known spells and another has Y known spells is reasonable. Saying that this is nonsense because it is equating a 9th level power to a 0 level spell is nonsense itself. Each provides extra options of different spells/powers known and so contributes to the whole.Once again though, detect magic is a 0th level spell, detect psionics is a 1st level power. So yes, it is valid to add in something that can be important.Also, I didnt say you misunderstood in this case, I said you were misrepresenting. I have just shown how.It is a myth, it is explained why it is not overpowering. Hence being a myth. Exactly.Although, I believe you are trying to be sarcastic here. Still though, it is a myth because some people jump the gun, not because it is actually damaging. If it was damaging then it wouldnt be a 'myth' it would be something a little harsher.Still, even then magic has things that win out. Force effects are much, much stronger for arcane and last time i checked force was a much better energy type than any of the others. Also, spells such as Horrid Wilting are insane in what they can do. Given the choice of which is more overpowering to a game: (1) energy missile at 20pp or (2) Horrid Wilting at 15th caster level I would say that the second is, by far.So, even with this versitility arcane magic still has ways it pulls ahead. That is a part of why it is a 'myth' and not 'fact' about being a problem.Good thing it isnt 'vastly' stronger then. Most of the the time it is either equal or a few more points of dc, at the very highest level it can be much harder to resist but even then in most cases I'd 'still' rather have horrid wilting.Being a discipline only power is a huge disadvantage, it means that you cut yourself out of a number of other useful powers. You wanted to fly? too bad, spend a feat. You wanted to use realty revision? never going to happen.Or you could spend a feat to get it. So, effectively, you have spent one feat to get a bit of a dc boost eventually for one power only. Alternately, the arcane guy could spend a feat to get +1 dc to all of his spells of a whole school, all the time. Tradeoffs.You mean your arguement that if the sorc is an exactly the level where he could run into a globe but hasnt quite gotten many spells that can go above it? The one that only works for a single level 'sometimes' and doesnt even apply to any monstrous type opponents? Cool, so for one level there is a problem going the other direction.Still though, it doesnt even matter to my arguement since there are a 'pile' of things that it has to go through and it is only a single one.Again, the energy choice simply makes it 'viable' at higher levels. That is one of the myths and discusses ad nauseum. I'll post the paragraphs on here if you like.So those are some of the reasons why damage dealing spells are underpowered or, in other words, not very viable at higher levels. constitution by itself ruins a good portion of that plan, the other dozen things on top of it simply diminish it further.Meteor swarm is, yet again, your attempt to confuse the issue and has nothing to do with anything here.But, to run with it anyway, if it only did a max of 5d4 over a much smaller area, then sure, it'd be first level. But then we already have burning hands so what is the point.If blast spells work well in your game then that is fine, every campaign favors different builds, but I am talking base d&d here. Going by just how things work under the raw what I have said is true.If you have a lot more humanoid type creatures who use class levels instead of racial stuff and dont get very much equipment (because npcs have less money) then that is a very different type of game than the base. It is of course a viable choice, but discussing a particular instead of the general isnt useful. We could go the other way and discuss games where direct damage spells never have any use period and it would also have no bearing.But you misquoted so extremely that what you said was a lie. That is the problem.No, that is different classes having different strengths. One has tons of staying power, the other has to conserve properly or they will burn out on accident.That is the whole point of having the appropriate number of challenges per day, to balance classes that have limited resources and those that have unlimited resources.How does one balance such disparity? Do we make every class the same? no, we make a balance point where they each can shine.It is a delicate balance but a good one.Remember, there are lots of different kinds of tradeoffs. The psion can go all out and burn out rapidly and be pretty effective, but so can any caster, even the barbarian is similar to this. If one has a problem with a psion because of too few challenges a day then the exact same problem will occur for all of the limited resource characters.That is what happens when part of the system is taken out of context, things look wrong. Placing it back in context makes the whole picture come into focus.It does give something to compare with. Especially over the course of an actual game day. The caster and the psion can use a bunch of lower level spells/powers to get through various problems, or put up defenses, or make attacks.Knock would be a great example of this. Casting it at higher levels takes up very little of the casters overall resources for heavy hitting, and yet it does cut into what the psion can do, especially after a few manifestations. Totaling up each shows that while the psion does have a lot more flexibility he is way behind in the total actual uses over the course of the day.Tradeoffs.Only because you have failed to read them and pay attention. Even the one you tried to paraphrase came off completely wrong. That one example leads me to believe that you dont know anything about the rest of them. After all, if you get that one wrong so badly the others probably arent far behind.Even simply reading the first couple of posts on the first goes through a lot of the problems in a decent way. There are still a few issues and will continue to be, they arent professional writers, they are just people trying to help.The myths thread was made for a reason: a lot of people overreact to anything different.It was made to help show a path through the overreactions and see how everything works together. Some parts of it are better written than others, but that certainly cant be held against it. After all, if people would just use things properly it wouldnt even be needed in the first place, but not everyone has the time to do so. People are on that site all of the time asking about this or that being overpowered and people have explanations. In order to give enough on here I would have to post dozens and dozens of posts worth of information. I'd rather just link to one of the more concise places that has many of them instead of doing that. How can anyone expect one single thread to put all of their mentioned and unmentioned fears to rest? It is merely a place to start and it would be impossible for me to explain the unmentioned ones anyway ;pI know people wont want to read the whole thread, but at least read the first page with an open mind and trying to see what is going on. Calling it silly out of laziness is just wrong, especially considering the amount of work that went into it.</blockquote>

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