NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thanee" data-source="post: 2270077" data-attributes="member: 478">Thank you! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Some comments... the parts I do not quote, I mostly agree with.While Mordenkainen's Disjunction really is a power-house of a spell, I would rate Psionic Dispel (unless house ruled) to be of an equal power level (that other "power level" <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />); equal, because its power lies within levels, which are much, much more often seen in actual campaigns.However, that power will probably be house ruled in most campaigns (funny enough, that it hasn't been covered in the errata), then it's not an issue.Of course, divine casters are not really relevant here. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />So, the availability of healing "magic" can only be seen as a big advantage!Summoned monsters cannot compare with astral constructs at all, when it comes to combat ability, they are also immune to Protection from Evil and other summon-protections, since they are not summoned. Summons have the advantage of minor magical abilities, of course. While the magical abilities are certainly nice, the combat ability is more powerful IMHO. But it's not that far off, so about even seems to fit.This is irrelevant. While it certainly is a disadvantage for psions in general (also see below), it has nothing to do with the powers themselves. If you say, that teleportation magic is better, since most psions have to spend a feat to get it, then you also have to say, that, for example, Astral Construct is like five times better than any summon spell, because it's nine spells in one, a sorcerer can never hope to match this kind of scaling goodness with Summon Monster. We do not do that, so we do not do the other as well.The psionics version of Dimension Door is vastly superior to the arcane version, therefore alone, psions enjoy an advantage in this area.While arcanists usually cannot use it at all, unless they have a base of operation, yes. Well, unless they get Greater Scrying, of course.Heh. Not really, tho (breaking the magic item creation, that is).A lot of the low-level combat-focused divinations are really good and do not cost any XP, tho.But fairly close... yes, I can see that.Power Words are weak. Otto's Irresistable Dance is pretty good, tho.But how about really strong enchantments like Mass Suggestion and Dominate Monster?Those are available to psions of *moderate* level! Big advantage for the psions there.Mind Blank isn't really a big factor. Only at higher level play (much higher and much more rare than True Seeing, which you nicely didn't mention and which does foil all illusions).So, how does it look without mind blanking everything away? That's more important, I think.Also arcane Invisibility is foiled by many abilities and even low-level spells/powers (starting at 1st). It's still a *very* good spell, of course, and yes, also better than the psionics "equivalent".Well, that's for sure. Of course psions have no trouble actually dealing with undead, they just have to resort to traditional blasting stuff and such. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Which numbers would that be? You hopefully do not speak of any of those silly damage comparisons using single spells to compare the total damage dice in a day, which say absolutely nothing about the actual power there.That is something I actually do not agree with. Save-or-die is great during moderate to higher levels, but the saves outrun the DCs quickly and there are some really effective countermeasures out there (i.e. Death Ward).Damage is always relevant, if you can deal enough of it.Remember, that you are usually not alone, and the fighter is dealing damage, too.If a save-or-die spell fails, you have achieved nothing.If a damage spell deals half damage, you still have done something meaningful.Anyways... the king of high-level play are no-save disabling spells/powers, of course.Without really looking, I'd say that arcanists do have an edge there, tho. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Yes, psionics are definitely lacking in the area of party buffing.Utility, maybe slightly, but not much, they just have different utility powers, but also good ones.In general, I totally agree, tho (always have and also always stated that myself), that psionics do not have the breadth which arcane spells cover. This is, of course, because there are far more spells out there and most books include spells, but only few have powers (and even then only very few of them). Maybe there will be some book expanding that, I don't know. Right now, it's an advantage for the arcanists for sure.However, one thing should not be forgotten here, both the sorcerer and the psion have a very limited amount of known spells/powers. This number is in the end the one that is relevant, and there this advantage for the sorcerer (having a better base to choose from), while still present, lessens a lot! Especially once you look at the spell/power levels, which are at any given time most relevant, that is the current highest level spells/powers *known*. The psion always has a HUGE advantage in terms of breadth then. Often knowing four high level powers instead of one spell. That is a tactical breadth the sorcerer cannot match.That "proof" is something I'm missing to date, tho. Can you point me to it, maybe?Or did you just mean, that in your games psions have proven fairly balanced?That I can, of course, not disagree with. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I am actually fairly sure, that these trade-offs (not only the lack of breadth in the power base (so remember what I have written in the above paragraph) and weaker party-friendly powers (I would even consider this an extra trade-off, because it is a fairly important one), also the augmentation cost (no free scaling, which is the BIG trade-off, of course) and other mostly minor stuff) are not enough, not even close, to balance the immense advantages psions have over sorcerers (much more "effective spells known" (lots of augmentable powers include higher level versions, also includes the incredible advantage of freely choosing energy type, a rather big tactical advantage), much more high level powers known at any given level and faster power level progression (huge advantage at all levels, from 3rd+), no caps (which keeps the lower level powers viable, unlike most of the lower level arcane spells), quicker power output and thus always able to create the full effect of their PP in a day (huge advantage, especially at higher levels), spontaneous Quicken (plus Schism, which can further improve this output), free DC scaling (auto-heighten, when using a lower level power as a higher level power), no VSM components (auto-still/silent/eschew materials (arcane casters need epic feats for that!), also near grapple immunity, the bane of arcane casters at low-mid levels, also Silence immunity), bonus feats (those are needed to get some of the discipline lists powers, tho, thus are not that big an advantage, of course, they mostly diminish that disadvantage to some degree), better skills (class list and Int instead of the weaker Cha as caster/manifester ability), almost unaffected by Globe spells <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />, and so on). Quite a list. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />ByeThanee</blockquote>

Verification