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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 2293436" data-attributes="member: 3146">I assume you've heard of Haste and Two Weapon Fighting. (Though haste is obviously the more optimal of the two).The reality is far more complex than this. If you add haste attacks into the equation (as you should), the full round attack is already dealing twice as much damage on average as a single attack. However, the effect of -5 and -10 to hit is usually -25% and -50% to hit respectively. Thus, if one assumes that the primary attack has a 100% chance of hitting, the secondary and tertiary attacks together will usually deal 125% of the primary--in other words, the secondary attacks are worth 1 extra primary attack as soon as you have two of them and a haste attack is worth another attack right there. (And most fighters will have some way of getting a haste attack by level 12--either boots of speed, bracers of the swift strike, a party wizard, a weapon of speed, or something).And, of course, the odds of hitting at all effect the equation. If a secondary attack hits on anything less than a 6, it's worth more than that. (And that's not an infrequent occurence for powerful and well supported melee characters). And, if the primary attack is extremely unlikely to hit, secondary attacks are also worth more than that. If the primary attack has a 75% chance to hit (probably a fair assumption) then the next two attacks (at 50% and 25% odds respectively) will deal exactly as much average damage per round as the first.Except that you can take it on your own turn, it doesn't use up AoOs and you get to choose who you attack with the extra attacks in a full attack action.  Then again, an ability that lets you take a nearly guaranteed attack of opportunity every round would be quite powerful too. (Rogues can get it at 10th level but not before).And just a moment ago, you were saying that iterative attacks were insignificant. Which is it? Are they not worth a single attack of opportunity or is it a big deal to push them back one level? For my part, I think they're important enough that pushing them back a level hurts, but it's still only one level and the ability to get them at all in the first round of combat is well worth the trade.This bit is a red herring and you should know it. There are two prestige classes in the Psi Handbook (illithid slayer and warmind) that increase PP without sacrificing BAB and if the DM allows improved caster level to count as improved manifester level, there are quite a number more in Complete Warrior, etc.Funny, I've got characters with Combat Reflexes as well as my character with Hustle, and I can say without a doubt that, even for a reach weapon fighter, combat reflexes is nowhere near as useful. I get combat reflexes attacks once or twice every module I play with my reach weapon character. I get between four and twelve extra attacks per module with Hustle. Either your games are very very different from me or you're really stretching with this claim..</blockquote>

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