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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 2298735" data-attributes="member: 3146">It's one of the most common spells for arcane casters to take. If your group doesn't have an arcane caster at all then you're the one in an unusual party where standard assumptions don't necessarily apply. I know that probably 4/5 groups I play in in the RPGA's living campaigns have access to haste past level 6 or so and all of the parties in my home group have access to it (and usually prep it) except the one I run which is extremely non-standard D&D with a host of house rules and hardly any casters of any type.Let's be reasonable here, I mentioned them because they're the easiest and most common ways (other than haste) to get a haste effect. There are others--I mentioned two in the previous post and now I remember that there's mithral fullplate of speed in the DMG too. And they are extremely common items that pop up in character builds all over the place. If players have the choice, a lot of them will get boots of speed.You're missing the boat because you insist on thinking in terms of total attacks without considering when those attacks occur in the combat and who you get them on. A full attack in round 1 is far better than a full attack in round 2 and an extra attack in round 1 is usually better than an extra attack in round 2 because the early attacks force the enemies to adopt a more defensive stance earlier and have the possibility of eliminating an enemy before he has any opportunity to hurt the party.You keep insisting that I'm saying it's game breaking. I've never said it was. What I have said is that it changes some of the basic tactics and trade-offs that otherwise apply to melee fighters. Move or full attack is a common and fundamental dilemma and if there's something that can remove that dilemma it changes the way the game is played.I'll buy that. However casting slow occasionally does not change the effectiveness of the tactic. (And, indeed, does very little to boots of speed users since they can just activate a new haste from the boots next round).</blockquote>

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