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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 2308965" data-attributes="member: 3146">So, what you're saying is that, unless conventional spellcasters have spells without somatic components (of which there is a rather limited list), they're utterly hosed. Psions, on the other hand, are merely inconvenienced by grappling and not even that at high levels. That sounds pretty much like what I said. Psions are somewhat vulnerable to grappling, but not nearly as vulnerable as conventional casters.Stick a 10th level wizard in an evard's spell and he's pretty much hosed unless he's got a dimension door or teleport prepped. Stick a 10th level psion in the evard's and he can still blow stuff up or do whatever else he wants with an only moderately difficult concentration check. Pin a wizard or sorcerer and only stilled and silent spells with no material components (requires preparing a spell using three feats) are available. Pin a psion and he's not any more inconvenienced than he used to be.I'll grant that number two works nearly as well against psions as against conventional casters. Indeed, I said as much in the original post. That, and the fact that grapples inconvenience psions is why I rated psions as half as vulnerable to these three tactics as wizards (grapple 50% vulnerable, disruption 100% vulnerable, silence 0% vulnerable).(In the corner case of an invisible psion, that is not true because an invisible psion can suppress displays with a simple concentration check and not betray his location through motion or sound like a conventional caster would, but, that's a corner case).So, if silence is a dramatically broken spell and psions are unaffected by it, one might conclude that it is a rather significant advantage for psions.What other spells or powers might or might not be broken is irrelevant since we are now considering how psions and conventional casters can respond to broken spells, not how many of them they get. If conventional casters were less vulnerable than psions to various ovepowered spells and powers, that would be a mark in their favor. However, (other than, arguably, magic missile) I can't think of any spells that conventional casters can defend against more easily than psions can.(All this, assuming, for the sake of the argument that silence is broken--I'll leave to one side whether the judgement of someone who prefers 3.5 darkness can be trusted to give good estimates of what constitutes "broken").Really? I notice you don't mention any. As it happens, I'm well aware of a number of other options (for instance, threaten a caster with a melee weapon to force him to cast defensively or entangle him to force a DC 15 concentration check, or deafen them for a 20% miscast chance) but none of them work with anywhere near the effectiveness of the first three. If you've got some hidden under your hat, you should mention them. Otherwise, people may suspect that you're just blowing smoke.If you read even what you wrote previously, you should be well aware that your evidence does not support this conclusion. Of the three most efficient ways of shutting down casters, as I said earlier and you concurred in the text of your reply, one is utterly ineffective against psions and one is significantly less effective against psions than against conventional casters. If your conclusion is that normal casters are hard to shut down (which is probably not a legitmate conclusion, based on the evidence), the next step based on the evidence that even you can see is to conclude that psions are next to impossible to shut down.</blockquote>

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