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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dacileva" data-source="post: 3792892" data-attributes="member: 12957">I don't, personally, find 3e to be derived much from 2e (or 1e), while 2e is unquestionably derived directly from 1e.I just don't see how the huge differences between 3e and both 1e and 2e can possibly be considered to be 3e returning towards 1e, particularly when 3e tended to go in a completely different direction on many rules, and in the places where it retained some basis from prior editions, it was almost always based from 2e's evolution from 1e, rather than being based directly from 1e.  The list of examples given wasn't compelling, given that the majority of items on the list existed in 2e (and thus couldn't have been instances of 3e returning towards 1e).I completely disagree on this.  2e was an attempt to collect 1e's disparate, scattered and arbitrary rules into a single consistent ruleset.  It failed miserably, but it was closer than 1e.  3e continued in that vein by starting with the consistency concept and going much more strongly with that in mind.The most often-cited 1e->2e changes that 3e 'undid' were bringing back half-orcs (which were <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Humanoids-Fantasy-Roleplaying-PHBR10/dp/1560766115/" target="_blank">in a 2e supplement</a>) and the assassin (who wasn't anything like 1e's assassin, being the brand new mechanic of prestige class), barbarian and monk (two classes which, again, aren't much like their 1e counterparts; these classes were also addressed (albeit poorly) in 2e supplements: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Barbarians-Handbook-Advanced-Dungeons/dp/B000NK6PGA/" target="_blank">barbarian</a>  and <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Scarlet-Brotherhood-Fantasy-Roleplaying-Greyhawk/dp/0786913746/" target="_blank">monk and assassin</a>).  (All links in this paragraph are to Amazon.)The only actual 1e->2e change I can think of that 3e 'undid' was the removal of THAC0, but its replacement isn't anything like any 1e mechanics or rules, so even that can't be considered a move back towards 1e.More of 3e's innovations were cleaner versions of house rules that 2e players had been using for quite some time; that was explicitly stated by the 3e development team.3e being similar to logical house rules used by some people who played 1e doesn't make 3e anything like a return to 1e, thankfully.</blockquote>

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