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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8076079" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I think part of this is two-fold. 1) There seems to be nothing uniquely Greyhawk in the limitations. There are no Clerics or Orcs in Darksun because the Gods are dead and the Orcs genocided out of existence. In many cases the default is that if there isn't a good reason to exclude them, a race should at least be considered to exist in the setting in some way. 2) Many of the things that don't exist in the setting didn't exist in 1983, which is why they don't exist in the setting. I'm going to use Pokemon as an example of what I mean. If someone wanted a faithful adaption of the Pokemon Red game, should it include Pichu and Elekid? Those are younger versions of Pokemon in the game (Pikachu and Electabuzz) so it is almost weird they wouldn't be in the game. But they weren't in the original... because they were developed later in the games history. Tieflings frankly make too much sense for Greyhawk, if Iuz's Empire has existed longer than a decade. If the place is so full of demons and devils then in the current version of the game, Tielfings arising is a natural occurrence. And, while there might be an impulse of "well, yeah, but they'd all be evil, completely" I have to wonder about that. Tieflings are far enough removed from their heritage to have free will beyond their nature, and I'm sure that at some point refugees flee from the Evil Empire. There is what seems to be a compelling narrative there, especially for a world supposedly steeped in neutrality, but there seems to be no reason to bar it except for "it wasn't there before" or "the people would just kill them on sight, so it isn't a player option."But at some point, if you aren't willing to advocate for the setting, then it starts to sound hollow. Sure, I could go to wikipedia and learn the bare bones history, but as I've found out many times, that information is as often wrong as it is right, and it often doesn't have any impact to read. Wiki authors are often not good storytellers, and there is more than one property I'd be bored to tears of if I only learned about it through a wiki.But what would that even mean? What new things should be added that would be distinctively Greyhawk? What old things should be preserved to maintain the feel? What even is the feel other than "gritty mercenaries and treasure hunters."?Okay... so it is a city-state like many others, that recently got big from obscure beginnings. Why did it get big? Was there a major discovery there? Is it a major Trade Line with some group? Or is it just... there. Was there a war with Aerdy? Does it still exist? Was it a terrible place and that is how Greyhawk got its moniker?So. Here is a thing. If without the proper context of other fantasy stories, I can't even be told what makes Greyhawk compelling... is it really compelling? I'm going to go and make a baseless assumption that you are not super into Anime. That's fine, it just fits my example. If I wanted to sell you on Hero and Demon Queen, a show I rather enjoy, I would likely go with something along the lines of "It takes the classic tale of the hero defeating the great evil, and spins it into a tale of the bonds between people, and how society and economic progress can hold back the tides of war and hate, while simulataneously exploring what a strong warrior does, when there is no war to fight. There are some anime tropes, but also powerful emotional character developments." However, in response to Greyhawk I'm getting "Well, if you haven't read the entire library of one author from at least twenty years ago, or gone and done the research yourself, I can't help you." Which... seems odd. Like, is this setting only good if you are a fan of specific branches of fantasy that haven't been around for the last few years?Okay, so how was this accomplished? Is magic dying? Are the gods less present? Are people not innovating? I mean, what are the spells of Tasha, Mordenkainen, Bigby and Melf if magic is not modernizing and evolving? If nothing important is going on... then why do I care enough to fight for a reprint of this setting?Hmm, I could see it. If you wanted to make it more about kingdom building and mass combat, most of the settings have some pretty big 800 lbs gorillas in the room. If Greyhawk doesn't, it does make it more ripe for "this is the setting about founding your own kingdom and fighting your neighbors for resources."</blockquote>

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