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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8076652" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I ran out of time after responding to Helldritch's post. So, I will try to continue later. Okay, see this is interesting, but it almost makes me want to say that while the world is humanocentric the setting shouldn't be. I could find it very interesting and compelling to have a world where you are dying out and struggling to survive, not because the world is a blasted wasteland, but because humanity is out-competing you. That sounds more interesting than focusing on human's building castles and making kingdoms like humans always do.Woof, are we talking a few hundred years ago or is Greyhawk literally one of the few places in the region where being a yeoman (if I have my terms correct) is a thing? Because if the vast majority of the population of the setting are "land slaves" that is kind of dark and hard to work around.So I shouldn't even try? The only one of those I have read and seen is LoTR, and even I can tell that setting is nothing like Greyhawk in tone. Not the Greyhawk people are describing anyways. And, if I can't be brought into the setting enough to understand it, without reading two or three different authors or doing a bunch of research... then the hooks are buried too deep. I can't hook someone with "Go do the research, you will love it."I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and be accused of lionfishing and discussing and bad faith, because I don't get how any of this is different from FR, or a dozen other fantasy worlds I could find. Is "Powerful magic users and priests" meant to refer to level 5? Level 10? Level 15? Is that the difference because when you say "powerful priests" you mean that finding a level 5 cleric is hard? That is low magic compared to most settings, but level 10... it is hard to find a level 10 priest in most settings. Gods walk the earth in a dozen different settings. World Shaking events? Got em in spades. Humans form the majority of the world? Always. Good people fighting Good people? Every good setting has that. The only thing I have rarely seen are the demi-humans on the brink of extinction. The only other time I can think of seeing that is LoTR, where magic is dying. And that doesn't seem to be an aspect most people want to focus on for the setting.Go ahead and let the accusations fly I guess, because I'm lost. You could be describing anything to me with that. Heck, isn't Theros most of that? Other than demi-humans almost being extinct you have world-shaking events, human majority, powerful (level 10 and up) casters are rare. I guess magic is fairly common for the PCs, but they are the heroes of legends. The common man doesn't have any of that wonder that the chosen of the gods have.Where does this idea come from that in other settings level 15 and up players are minor forces? I've never experienced this in any setting. Heck, at mid-levels, the party is fairly confident that they can kill any force the local lord sends after us, except another party of adventurers. This idea that Greyhawk is somehow unique in the fact that lords have to respect powerful warriors, and that high level players are major forces in the world is boggling to me. I guess, maybe in FR people are used to being told they are big fish in thimble sized ponds, but the only difference between a level 15 mage and whoever the leader of Thay is (to my knowledge) is that one of them has an army of mages to send after the other. And yeah, building an organization takes time and effort, which is why it makes people stronger.That could be a hook for a setting. But I think everyone old to the setting would hate carte blanche to divide the map and and make their own.</blockquote>

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