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For the Love of Greyhawk: Why People Still Fight to Preserve Greyhawk
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<blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 8077974" data-attributes="member: 6855114"><p>The exact rule is: Khelben Blackstaff is at a minimum of 27th level and he is always 5 levels above any PCs in any cases. That is the kind of power you see in FR that you don't in Greyhawk.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is a bit of the problem with random encounter table. Most of these are not logical by nature. These nameless NPCs are there to be beaten by the heroes of your stories. What is very fun with with 5th edition, is that you don't need to get very high level NPCs to challenge your group. Just a bunch of well played lower level NPCs can do the job. Bounded accuracy does have its advantages.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I will not go in details about each of them. But you take the whole continent and legendary casters that are either dead, foes or even demi-gods. I take a single city, Waterdeep, and I get even more than what you have there! And even in the list, you have NPCs that are not level 18... Should we include The Symbul (28th if I remember correctly), Elminster (27th level in 1ed), Lady Alustriel (25th?) And players can interact with them even in their early levels if you take some adventures module, it can be as low as 3rd level. Try to interact with Mordenkained before level 10... you'll get a: "No thank you. No time for you. Too busy..." from a servitor. If you get any answer at all.</p><p></p><p>Mordenkainen in the original box set is only level 18th (and coincidentaly, the same level in CoS). Tenser is also level 18th. The mage of the Vale is 19th but in the original box set he was rumored to be 12th... (2nd edition tended to upgrade the power spike quite a bit for some reasons, but even then, it was not that big.). If you go this way, FR has way more 18th level casters than Greyhawk. Way more than 3 or 4 times the same amount. Stick to one city, Waterdeep. It is about 3 to 4 times the amount of the higher levels casters than what you can find in Greyhawk. This speaks a lot for the setting.</p><p></p><p>And I did not say that Greyhawk did not have "high" magic. I said that it was way rarer than any other settings. Legendary casters are all around level 16 to 18 where as in the realm, they range from 18th level up to 27th (with one case that has no limits on his levels...).</p><p></p><p></p><p>You are right. But it would be a start and would give you a better idea. You don't have to have a library with 2000 books in it (as I have) to get to know S&S. Conan, the first movie is really good and quite representative. The Witcher serie is great and Game of Thrones would finalize your initiation. I would still read anything from Fritz Leiber as it is really close to what Greyhawk is. These are really good read. Often, they come in small novels/parts that can be read relatively fast so it does not take too much time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Helldritch, post: 8077974, member: 6855114"] The exact rule is: Khelben Blackstaff is at a minimum of 27th level and he is always 5 levels above any PCs in any cases. That is the kind of power you see in FR that you don't in Greyhawk. That is a bit of the problem with random encounter table. Most of these are not logical by nature. These nameless NPCs are there to be beaten by the heroes of your stories. What is very fun with with 5th edition, is that you don't need to get very high level NPCs to challenge your group. Just a bunch of well played lower level NPCs can do the job. Bounded accuracy does have its advantages. I will not go in details about each of them. But you take the whole continent and legendary casters that are either dead, foes or even demi-gods. I take a single city, Waterdeep, and I get even more than what you have there! And even in the list, you have NPCs that are not level 18... Should we include The Symbul (28th if I remember correctly), Elminster (27th level in 1ed), Lady Alustriel (25th?) And players can interact with them even in their early levels if you take some adventures module, it can be as low as 3rd level. Try to interact with Mordenkained before level 10... you'll get a: "No thank you. No time for you. Too busy..." from a servitor. If you get any answer at all. Mordenkainen in the original box set is only level 18th (and coincidentaly, the same level in CoS). Tenser is also level 18th. The mage of the Vale is 19th but in the original box set he was rumored to be 12th... (2nd edition tended to upgrade the power spike quite a bit for some reasons, but even then, it was not that big.). If you go this way, FR has way more 18th level casters than Greyhawk. Way more than 3 or 4 times the same amount. Stick to one city, Waterdeep. It is about 3 to 4 times the amount of the higher levels casters than what you can find in Greyhawk. This speaks a lot for the setting. And I did not say that Greyhawk did not have "high" magic. I said that it was way rarer than any other settings. Legendary casters are all around level 16 to 18 where as in the realm, they range from 18th level up to 27th (with one case that has no limits on his levels...). You are right. But it would be a start and would give you a better idea. You don't have to have a library with 2000 books in it (as I have) to get to know S&S. Conan, the first movie is really good and quite representative. The Witcher serie is great and Game of Thrones would finalize your initiation. I would still read anything from Fritz Leiber as it is really close to what Greyhawk is. These are really good read. Often, they come in small novels/parts that can be read relatively fast so it does not take too much time. [/QUOTE]
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For the Love of Greyhawk: Why People Still Fight to Preserve Greyhawk
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