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For the Love of Greyhawk: Why People Still Fight to Preserve Greyhawk
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8080126" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Okay, there is a lot of nuance I suppose, but I'm picking out a specific section here to make a point. </p><p></p><p>Why can't I have an opinion on the quality of a Buffy RPG? </p><p></p><p>I know Fantasy. I know Urban Fantasy. I know Modern Fantasy. I know Chosen One stories. I know about mythology including Demons, Vampires, and ect. I know Gaming. I know Role-playing Games. I know a bit about statistics and game balance. </p><p></p><p>The only thing I cannot possibly make an opinion on is how accurately the Buffy RPG emulates the TV show. But, even on that, I can potentially make some insights into whether or not that is a good thing. For example, I am vaguely aware that Buffy is supernaturally powerful do to her being Chosen, and that delegates many other characters to support roles. So, I could very easily make an informed opinion on how designing a game where only one person can do the monster killing and has a starring role can be incredibly difficult and there are many pitfalls at making other people at the table feel like extras. </p><p></p><p>That doesn't require knowledge of the Buffy Canon. </p><p></p><p>So... why can I not have those opinions, if I have the rule book, but have never seen the show?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Two points</p><p></p><p>1) Alright, fine. At some point in my life I will likely have enough time to read these novellas (whichever ones they end up being.) In fact, I could drop everything and track them down and get started right this moment. It might take me only a month to get the proper backing. </p><p></p><p>This thread will be dead in a month. This conversation over, and I will have prepared for I guess possible future discussion. </p><p></p><p>And that requires me literally dropping everything I am doing, right now, to go and track these things down. And why should I when</p><p></p><p>2) I do know quite a bit about what I am talking about. I know DnD. I know Fantasy. I know a few different fantasy genres. I am quite broadly familiar with a lot of topics revolving around this issue. The only thing I lack, is a knowledge of Sword and Sorcerery. </p><p></p><p>Which, this is a bit hilarious, isn't it? From this section of the discussion I would be better suited to discuss Greyhawk as a person who has no idea what DnD is, than as someone who doesn't know Sword and Sorcerery. Because my knowledge of DnD is not enough to talk about a DnD setting, I am required to have knowledge of a specific genre, to have enough understanding of thematics to even participate. </p><p></p><p></p><p>And, I came to this thread to learn about the setting. I came in expecting that I didn't know a whole lot about what made Greyhawk special. And I wasn't the only one asking, and I'm not the only one who has criticisms about what we finally dragged out of people. Heck, I might not be the only one who isn't terribly familiar with Sword and Sorcerery or Conan. I was just the only one dumb enough to admit it and try and seek clarification. That was my mistake. Admitting what I didn't know, and asking questions. </p><p></p><p>And for that, I got this.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You know what the funniest thing is about this? I've read quite a bit of dark fantasy and stuff that is likely inspired and riffing off of Sword and Sorcerery. </p><p></p><p>I read a lot, and I am an English Major. Thematics is something that I have a solid grounding in. </p><p></p><p>I just can't quote the right books, or gush about the right authors. So it doesn't matter. I might actually understand the themes and ideas, even without the knowledge of the specific stories like how Conan did XYZ with the yadda of who cares. </p><p></p><p>My understanding isn't being even questioned. It is being assumed. And since no one can talk about the setting beyong "Sword and Sorcerery" and "Gritty fantasy Mercenaries" then I'm excluded from the discussion until I can tell you all that I've read the Conan Canon and am part of the right club.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How is appreciating it in a different way a problem? What, are there now correct ways to like something too? </p><p></p><p>I'm now completely lost, because if you believe it is possible to appreciate it without S&S knowledge, then why are you beating the drums that I should have dropped everything the instant I said I didn't know Conan to go read it? In your own opinion, I don't even need to do that to be able to appreciate the setting. I might just have a <em><u>different</u></em> appreciation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8080126, member: 6801228"] Okay, there is a lot of nuance I suppose, but I'm picking out a specific section here to make a point. Why can't I have an opinion on the quality of a Buffy RPG? I know Fantasy. I know Urban Fantasy. I know Modern Fantasy. I know Chosen One stories. I know about mythology including Demons, Vampires, and ect. I know Gaming. I know Role-playing Games. I know a bit about statistics and game balance. The only thing I cannot possibly make an opinion on is how accurately the Buffy RPG emulates the TV show. But, even on that, I can potentially make some insights into whether or not that is a good thing. For example, I am vaguely aware that Buffy is supernaturally powerful do to her being Chosen, and that delegates many other characters to support roles. So, I could very easily make an informed opinion on how designing a game where only one person can do the monster killing and has a starring role can be incredibly difficult and there are many pitfalls at making other people at the table feel like extras. That doesn't require knowledge of the Buffy Canon. So... why can I not have those opinions, if I have the rule book, but have never seen the show? Two points 1) Alright, fine. At some point in my life I will likely have enough time to read these novellas (whichever ones they end up being.) In fact, I could drop everything and track them down and get started right this moment. It might take me only a month to get the proper backing. This thread will be dead in a month. This conversation over, and I will have prepared for I guess possible future discussion. And that requires me literally dropping everything I am doing, right now, to go and track these things down. And why should I when 2) I do know quite a bit about what I am talking about. I know DnD. I know Fantasy. I know a few different fantasy genres. I am quite broadly familiar with a lot of topics revolving around this issue. The only thing I lack, is a knowledge of Sword and Sorcerery. Which, this is a bit hilarious, isn't it? From this section of the discussion I would be better suited to discuss Greyhawk as a person who has no idea what DnD is, than as someone who doesn't know Sword and Sorcerery. Because my knowledge of DnD is not enough to talk about a DnD setting, I am required to have knowledge of a specific genre, to have enough understanding of thematics to even participate. And, I came to this thread to learn about the setting. I came in expecting that I didn't know a whole lot about what made Greyhawk special. And I wasn't the only one asking, and I'm not the only one who has criticisms about what we finally dragged out of people. Heck, I might not be the only one who isn't terribly familiar with Sword and Sorcerery or Conan. I was just the only one dumb enough to admit it and try and seek clarification. That was my mistake. Admitting what I didn't know, and asking questions. And for that, I got this. You know what the funniest thing is about this? I've read quite a bit of dark fantasy and stuff that is likely inspired and riffing off of Sword and Sorcerery. I read a lot, and I am an English Major. Thematics is something that I have a solid grounding in. I just can't quote the right books, or gush about the right authors. So it doesn't matter. I might actually understand the themes and ideas, even without the knowledge of the specific stories like how Conan did XYZ with the yadda of who cares. My understanding isn't being even questioned. It is being assumed. And since no one can talk about the setting beyong "Sword and Sorcerery" and "Gritty fantasy Mercenaries" then I'm excluded from the discussion until I can tell you all that I've read the Conan Canon and am part of the right club. How is appreciating it in a different way a problem? What, are there now correct ways to like something too? I'm now completely lost, because if you believe it is possible to appreciate it without S&S knowledge, then why are you beating the drums that I should have dropped everything the instant I said I didn't know Conan to go read it? In your own opinion, I don't even need to do that to be able to appreciate the setting. I might just have a [I][U]different[/U][/I] appreciation. [/QUOTE]
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