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For the Love of Greyhawk: Why People Still Fight to Preserve Greyhawk
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8081663" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I'm not sure what you mean by this, because it is completely the case. Okay, I guess they are only "experts" in a particular author, but I had a teacher whose major focus of study was Edmund Spenser, and there are dozens of scholars of Shakespeare. </p><p></p><p>So, I'm not sure if you misunderstood what I was saying, or if I'm misunderstanding you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, in the last two thousand years, I'm sure there have been some changes made to the literary structure. But, pretty much the majority of stuff written in Europe during the 13 and 1400's was heavily steeped in the Bible, and from their we found ourselves riffing on various conceits. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>8th time, 9th time 10th time? </p><p></p><p>My only opinion that I put forth before people started dog piling on me was "It isn't impossible to explain Greyhawk to someone who is unfamiliar to your reference." And, it was based in a very general understanding of how people talk and communicate about products. </p><p></p><p>And, sure, I have put forth more ideas since. But I have avoided declaring whether or not something had worth, or anything of the sort. Most of what I have said is, "Wait, if that is it, why do you need a setting?" or responding to specific points people have made in the thread. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know why people are acting like I tried to come in and explain how to write a Greyhawk book.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've been wondering about that myself. Reading the pages that Uriak posted and thinking about some of the posts I've seen, the entire point presented seems to be that S&S is about a more hard-bitten mercenary individual, in over their head (ie you are a detective running into Gang activity instead of normal cases, you are a thief running into a demon cult instead of just a noble man) and dealing with stories that are personal and "small stakes" </p><p></p><p>Which, sounds exactly like Noir.</p><p></p><p>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p>And this brings me to another point I've been considering. People have been describing the setting as "Sword and Sorcery" but looking into the definition of Sword and Sorcery, it seems to focus on individuals who are personally motivated by power or greed, encountering dangerous threats in a small scale conflict that is fully personal stakes. </p><p></p><p>Which.... isn't a setting. From a literary stand point at least, that isn't what that word means. It feels a little bit like going to someone and saying "Hey, we should play in my new setting. You are a cynical former cop who can't say no to a pretty face." </p><p></p><p>That is a character, maybe a plot, but not a setting. It can indicate a setting, this character typically falls into a setting where they are the lone point of law, and are involved with certain other character archetypes, but I could write that story in a futuristic space station circling a neutron star, a fantasy village on the border of the untamed wilderness, or Chicago.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8081663, member: 6801228"] I'm not sure what you mean by this, because it is completely the case. Okay, I guess they are only "experts" in a particular author, but I had a teacher whose major focus of study was Edmund Spenser, and there are dozens of scholars of Shakespeare. So, I'm not sure if you misunderstood what I was saying, or if I'm misunderstanding you. Well, in the last two thousand years, I'm sure there have been some changes made to the literary structure. But, pretty much the majority of stuff written in Europe during the 13 and 1400's was heavily steeped in the Bible, and from their we found ourselves riffing on various conceits. 8th time, 9th time 10th time? My only opinion that I put forth before people started dog piling on me was "It isn't impossible to explain Greyhawk to someone who is unfamiliar to your reference." And, it was based in a very general understanding of how people talk and communicate about products. And, sure, I have put forth more ideas since. But I have avoided declaring whether or not something had worth, or anything of the sort. Most of what I have said is, "Wait, if that is it, why do you need a setting?" or responding to specific points people have made in the thread. I don't know why people are acting like I tried to come in and explain how to write a Greyhawk book. I've been wondering about that myself. Reading the pages that Uriak posted and thinking about some of the posts I've seen, the entire point presented seems to be that S&S is about a more hard-bitten mercenary individual, in over their head (ie you are a detective running into Gang activity instead of normal cases, you are a thief running into a demon cult instead of just a noble man) and dealing with stories that are personal and "small stakes" Which, sounds exactly like Noir. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ And this brings me to another point I've been considering. People have been describing the setting as "Sword and Sorcery" but looking into the definition of Sword and Sorcery, it seems to focus on individuals who are personally motivated by power or greed, encountering dangerous threats in a small scale conflict that is fully personal stakes. Which.... isn't a setting. From a literary stand point at least, that isn't what that word means. It feels a little bit like going to someone and saying "Hey, we should play in my new setting. You are a cynical former cop who can't say no to a pretty face." That is a character, maybe a plot, but not a setting. It can indicate a setting, this character typically falls into a setting where they are the lone point of law, and are involved with certain other character archetypes, but I could write that story in a futuristic space station circling a neutron star, a fantasy village on the border of the untamed wilderness, or Chicago. [/QUOTE]
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