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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 8087255" data-attributes="member: 5142">You are jumping from discussing an epic tale to an aetiological one? Why? But yes, the characters in The Illiad and The Odyssey are being measured against an external morality, with some failing and achieving those moral expectations. But there is also moral codes of honor in regards to combat. Or how one treats the dead.Most people not knowing is missing the point. JRRT has a vision regarding the divine right of kings and divine providence at work here. There are a lot of expectations on Aragorn placed there by both Elrond and Gandalf that he will ascend to become king of Gondor. And once we get to the Council of Elrond, we are constantly hearing Aragorn being referred to as Isildur's heir. From the moment that he learns of his identity, Boromir begins judging Aragorn as heir.This likely demonstrates that you either fail to understand the point that is being made or going out of your way to misconstrue it. The moral code that Conan adheres to is his own. The moral code that Elric adheres to is his own. These are not external moral codes of society (or religion), but, rather, internal ones. Furthermore, even if one were to say that his code is that of a Cimmerian, Conan is not a Cimmerian in Cimmeria, but a Cimmerian who is constantly traveling the world and applying his own moral ethic to it rather than conform to society's. I agree with Hussar that it's hard to imagine that you are arguing in good faith anymore. You do not seem interested in coming to any understanding, only to distort arguments people are making about genre. You are trying to disprove particular points of the argument about a genre, but doing so horribly while completely missing or ignoring - hard to say with you - the point people are making. In your latest bout of bad faith arguments, you are trying here to counter Hussar by simply counting characters. But the point Hussar making about LotR is that there is a difference in SCALE. It is not just a rote function regarding the number of characters but also their histories and how they fit into the setting. And often these characters bring with them their host of unnamed characters: Entbeard brings the ents; Theoden brings the Rohirrim; Aragorn has his Dunedain; Denethor II has Gondor; Faramir has his rangers; Imrahil has his swan knights and the men from western Gondor, etc. There is a tremendous amount of chronological/historical SCALE that contextualize the action of the characters.</blockquote>

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