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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5776486" data-attributes="member: 2011">Except that any creature behind a bush can come up and do a heal check, regardless of training, and have a fair chance of getting a PC conscious again. Any creature can do the equivalent of shouting a PC awake (just not from range).As for the Bard, the Bard uses magic. I only have a little problem with him. The Arcane power source shouldn't have a healer nearly as good as other power sources (that source shouildn't have a healer at all, it should be a weakness of that power source) but if one Arcane class can heal, then the Arcane magic should be capable of healing with all classes of the Arcane power source (personally, I think the Arcane power source should never heal, but should hand out temp hit points or resistance instead).The Warlord, on the other hand, is just a set of mechanical numbers, posing as a PC. The mechanics of "we need a martial leader" drive the PC class, not the other way around and it's why this thread was started in the first place, for people who do not like that concept and find it totally artificial and metagamey.4E revolves around the concept of roles and how every power source must have every role and must allow the roles to work nearly the same. Power sources should drive classes, not roles.D&D has always been a damage game until 4E.Yes, Gary put a writeup in 1E to explain how a PC could get hit by many sword swings and still survive (and people use this lame excuse as a rationale as to why D&D never did real abstract damage), but until 4E, hit points were as much damage as they were anything else. In fact, they were an abstract of damage more than anything else because they took actual magic or significant rest to heal.The PC wasn't healthy until he rested for a long period of time, or was healed magically.Now, hit points are a quantum state of physics which vanish like the morning dew as the PC catches his breath for 5 minutes. Meh. That is so far from Gary's original vision of them it's not funny.I didn't say that they should be. But, they should be at the 1E through 3.5 level of abstract damage plausibility, not the mmorph level of abstract damage plausibility where all they are is a little red bar that constantly changes without any magic to do so.The designers perceived a curing problem and fixed it the wrong way. IMO. Obviously, a large segment of our gaming community either like how it got fixed, or they have bought into it over the last 3 years.When I play the game, I use that same healing mechanic as everyone else, but that doesn't mean that I changed my mind and now think that the game mechanic somehow makes logical sense. It is still as implausible as the first day 4E came out and I wish 5E would come up with a better system where damage is damage, and healing is healing, and PCs aren't in quantum states, and only divine or primal magic can heal, and PCs cannot be shouted awake. Again, IMO. I think the "anything goes" from a power source perspective (without solid designer metagame rules) adds to the bloat ware and amount of errata of 4E as much as the splat books do.</blockquote>

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