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Message: <blockquote data-quote="daddystabz" data-source="post: 4471741" data-attributes="member: 54231">Shouldn't Luke have automatically turned dark side after he used the force to target the death star's weak point and blew the station up, thus killing thousands of people? That should have been worth an entire row of dark side points easily according to some of you.  You see....it is all about context!!! If you use a power that accidentally kills a being while that being is trying to kill innocents and/or yourself it does NOT warrant a dark side point in my view. Luke didn't get a whole row of dark side points for this because the death star was about to destroy the secret rebel base on Yavin IV and with it, an entire planet teeming with life.  In addition, he was trying to help save the lives of the Rebel pilots that were being killed at an alarming pace on this attack run.  He HAD to kill thousands of imperials in order to preserve the lives of millions of innocents.  He was forced to kill them because the enemy was not going to back down.  In my games I try to give the enemies a chance to surrender and/or to flee and if they don't then we really don't have much choice but to kill the baddies that are trying to kill us.  If you use the power blatantly and kill when not absolutely necessary or to maim or torture the opponent then you decide a dark side point, in my view. Maintaining the force grip should most of the time warrant a dark side point.  Mace Windu uses Force Grip on General Grievous, crushing his chest with it and thus giving Grievous the cough that he has all the time. I think people misunderstand jedi completely. Jedi TRY to not harm others with the force or at all for that matter BUT if they are forced to kill they will KILL to defend themselves and other innocents. Why is there no consideration of me killing a bad guy with my lightsaber? Did Obi-Wan absolutely have to slice Darth Maul in half with his saber? Did that deserve a dark side point too? Jedi are led by the force with their sabers in combat. The force is what makes them deadly in combat. No one seems to ever question or think of giving dark side points for using a lightsaber to harm others. I am sorry but the force sometimes has to be used to harm others by lightside jedi in order to protect others. What is the use of taking a freaking force power if everytime you use it you go right down the dark path? If this is the way it should be handled then most jedi would have been dark side a long time back if every time they had to kill someone they automatically would get a dark side point, without examination of the circumstances.  By the way, the GM didn't decide to enact a houserule on us because I was abusing the power or even using it too much. I in fact rarely use the power at all, only having used it very sparingly since I have had it. He actually was reading through the core rulebook and came to the conclusion that he hasn't been issuing dark side points often enough. What made him look in the core rulebook about this stuff is actually another character in our campaign who is a jedi as well. He goes overboard with his force powers a LOT and kills everything in sight. We joke about him all the time saying that it is only a matter of time till he starts spewing force lightning and we nicknamed him Anakin. We try to hide Tusken women and children from him. In one episode of our Dawn of Defiance campaign he used Move Object to drop a Z-95 Headhunter space fighter on Durga the Hutt, killing him. This whole conversation is especially important because this is a Dawn of Defiance campaign and if you have a GM that both changes the rules on you in the middle of a campaign AND starts giving out dark side points like mad it will affect the whole party because 3 out of the 6 players play jedi and in Dawn of Defiance you CANNOT atone a dark side point, according to the campaign standards. This means if you get a dark side point you are stuck with it for good and cannot erase it!</blockquote>

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