Force mage Prc (its back after some work)
- Thread starter las
- Start date
Irda Ranger
First Post
Force Mage Critique
Disclaimer:
I note that this is a revision, but I never read the original. If I rehash any arguments from the last version, I apologize for that.
Requirements
Feats:
Why is Dodge a prereq for this class? For that matter, why is Skill Focus [Knowledge(The Planes)]? Dodge seems like an aberration, since the rest of the class has nothing to do with physical Dexterity, and what does Force and “the Planes” have in common? “Force” seems more of a general type of Magic, and Skill Focus [Knowledge(Arcane)] seems more appropriate. If you want a second feat, Spell Focus seems more appropriate than Dodge. More “on topic”, if you will.
Skills:
Again, why Knowledge(The Planes)? There is nothing in this class that seems Planes related.
Class Skills
Fine.
Class Features
Spells/ Day
Why does this class have a unique spell progression?
It always seems to me that PrC’s that have a unique spell progression force a spellcaster to go back to square one. To meet your skill requirements the spellcaster has to be at least 5th level. When the spellcaster chooses to advance to 6th level, he has the choice of learning new 3rd level spells, or new 1st level spells. If the spellcaster chooses Force Mage, he has to wait until 10th level to get 3rd level spells he could have gotten 4 levels ago as a straight caster. Meanwhile his “straight caster” contemporaries are handing much more powerful spellcasting goodness.
I would drop the spells/ day column entirely, and just have a “+1 Spellcaster Level”, even if it isn’t every level. Maybe +1 SL two out of every three or four levels. This way this prestige class doesn’t completely handicap a caster. Otherwise a Wiz10/For10 would have a lot of 4th or 5th level spells, and nothing better.
Keep the “Spells Known” column, but change it to “New Spells Known”. A force mage learns these spells in addition to any spells he would normally learn, and they must be chosen from the list you provide.
Spells/ Day (cont.)
Why is this class using Charisma, and only Chr, as a spellcasting stat? Shouldn’t they have the choice? I would think that if a Wizard takes this class, that the new spells learned are in his spellbook, or is this not the case? If a Wizard took this class, does he cast spells from his Force spell list spontaneously, a’ la the Sorcerer? If not, he should use Int to determine spellcasting variables.
Force Damage
This seems very powerful, but I am at work and can’t do a full analysis. However, it would have to be more powerful than this to make up for losing 6th through 9th level spells.
Natural Mage Armor
I like this ability. It’s cool.
Force Resistance
This almost seems like a flavor ability, since unless your Force Mage made a habit of hunting other Force mages, I don’t think you would see too many Force Effects. Not a reason to drop it though.
Spell List
I like the list. I don’t have a complete spell list in front of me, but shouldn’t this list include Unseen Servant and the various Ottiluke’s Spheres spells? They just seem to fit, to me.
Last notes
The Unique Spell Progression makes this class completely unplayable to me as a spellcaster. I would never give up all of my high level spells for the low level spells and powers you have suggested. It would be a complete loss of power. Change the spell progression to +1 Spellcaster Level so that you get maybe 7-8 spellcaster levels out of the class that stack with the 5 levels you have already paid for, and it would be more attractive.
If the requirements were lower, I would be tempted to take two levels of this class as a Rogue or Monk (for the Natural Mage Armor), but as it stands, not even that with the Requirements the way they are. It would be easier to just get a magic item that casts these spells for you a limited number of times/ day.
Irda Ranger
Edit for grammar and content.
Disclaimer:
I note that this is a revision, but I never read the original. If I rehash any arguments from the last version, I apologize for that.
Requirements
Feats:
Why is Dodge a prereq for this class? For that matter, why is Skill Focus [Knowledge(The Planes)]? Dodge seems like an aberration, since the rest of the class has nothing to do with physical Dexterity, and what does Force and “the Planes” have in common? “Force” seems more of a general type of Magic, and Skill Focus [Knowledge(Arcane)] seems more appropriate. If you want a second feat, Spell Focus seems more appropriate than Dodge. More “on topic”, if you will.
Skills:
Again, why Knowledge(The Planes)? There is nothing in this class that seems Planes related.
Class Skills
Fine.
Class Features
Spells/ Day
Why does this class have a unique spell progression?
It always seems to me that PrC’s that have a unique spell progression force a spellcaster to go back to square one. To meet your skill requirements the spellcaster has to be at least 5th level. When the spellcaster chooses to advance to 6th level, he has the choice of learning new 3rd level spells, or new 1st level spells. If the spellcaster chooses Force Mage, he has to wait until 10th level to get 3rd level spells he could have gotten 4 levels ago as a straight caster. Meanwhile his “straight caster” contemporaries are handing much more powerful spellcasting goodness.
I would drop the spells/ day column entirely, and just have a “+1 Spellcaster Level”, even if it isn’t every level. Maybe +1 SL two out of every three or four levels. This way this prestige class doesn’t completely handicap a caster. Otherwise a Wiz10/For10 would have a lot of 4th or 5th level spells, and nothing better.
Keep the “Spells Known” column, but change it to “New Spells Known”. A force mage learns these spells in addition to any spells he would normally learn, and they must be chosen from the list you provide.
Spells/ Day (cont.)
Why is this class using Charisma, and only Chr, as a spellcasting stat? Shouldn’t they have the choice? I would think that if a Wizard takes this class, that the new spells learned are in his spellbook, or is this not the case? If a Wizard took this class, does he cast spells from his Force spell list spontaneously, a’ la the Sorcerer? If not, he should use Int to determine spellcasting variables.
Force Damage
This seems very powerful, but I am at work and can’t do a full analysis. However, it would have to be more powerful than this to make up for losing 6th through 9th level spells.
Natural Mage Armor
I like this ability. It’s cool.
Force Resistance
This almost seems like a flavor ability, since unless your Force Mage made a habit of hunting other Force mages, I don’t think you would see too many Force Effects. Not a reason to drop it though.
Spell List
I like the list. I don’t have a complete spell list in front of me, but shouldn’t this list include Unseen Servant and the various Ottiluke’s Spheres spells? They just seem to fit, to me.
Last notes
The Unique Spell Progression makes this class completely unplayable to me as a spellcaster. I would never give up all of my high level spells for the low level spells and powers you have suggested. It would be a complete loss of power. Change the spell progression to +1 Spellcaster Level so that you get maybe 7-8 spellcaster levels out of the class that stack with the 5 levels you have already paid for, and it would be more attractive.
If the requirements were lower, I would be tempted to take two levels of this class as a Rogue or Monk (for the Natural Mage Armor), but as it stands, not even that with the Requirements the way they are. It would be easier to just get a magic item that casts these spells for you a limited number of times/ day.
Irda Ranger
Edit for grammar and content.
Last edited:
Irda Ranger
First Post
las said:
No, I was thinking that whether you were a Sorcerer or Wizard, when you advance as a Force Mage you get to learn more spells that you normally would. The trick is that the extra spells would have to come from the Force Mage spell list.
Here's my example:
A Sorcerer of 6th level takes a level in Force Mage.
Normally upon attaining 7th Level a Sorcerer learns one 2nd and one 3rd level spell. A Sor6/For1 would learn those two spells, plus one 1st level spell from the Force Mage list. Say Magic Missile. Do you see where I am going?
A Wizard would simply add two spells of his highest level to his book, in addition to any spells he gets from advancing as a Force Mage. All of these spells would be free.
Irda Ranger
Last edited:
Marshall
First Post
las said:
Sure, If he's willing to spend 8 SP/lvl for 13 levels on cross-class skills.
That also goes for the SOR, who doesnt have Know(planes) as a class skill.
The prereqs really need to be changed. If you want to keep it available for non-caster classes(ala Contemplative from DotF), change the reqs to one 'wizard' skill Maxed out for X level and Skill Focus(that skill)
Switch it to a +1 Spellcaster class, with the same addendum the Contemplative has, but related to WIZARD levels.
I'd change Natural Mage Armor to a Natural Armor bonus that starts at +1 at 2nd and goes up 1/3levels. That way it stacks with regular MA and doesnt obviate GMA.
With a +1 caster level that mean that the char that take it will need spell casting level to get any benfet of the PRC. When and if I do change the class I will then make it so only spell casters can take it (only the wizard then if you think that whats needed
) O if I take out the ability then the class losses some flaver. I might make MA part of whats needed for the PRC as well. Plus I will need powers to give the class more flaver for part of its flaver came from the spells it could cast.
) O if I take out the ability then the class losses some flaver. I might make MA part of whats needed for the PRC as well. Plus I will need powers to give the class more flaver for part of its flaver came from the spells it could cast.Similar Threads
