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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4108434" data-attributes="member: 40961">Yep.Lesson- don't send the characters into environments which can auto kill them, then put in monsters that can push them into environmental hazards.But putting them in environments which harm them, rather than kill them outright, is fine.If you need guidelines on how to do this, check the section on traps.&nbsp; Compare the damage your environmental hazard does with the damage dealt by traps of various levels, and you'll know about what is reasonable.&nbsp; Heck, a 10' cliff and an uncovered 10' pit are the same thing, technically speaking.Re, boats: Water is no longer an auto-kill environmental hazard.&nbsp; The way nobody in D&amp;D could swim was a relic of the 3e skill system, in which many characters had plate mail proficiency, but did not have Swim as a class skill.&nbsp; This resulted in them not putting ranks in Swim, and ending up with swim checks in the -9 range.&nbsp; DMs, knowing that the Paladin and Cleric would die instantly upon encountering the smallest of streams, declined to include said streams as locations for fights.&nbsp; Other players, relying on this tendency, then skipped putting ranks in Swim, completing the vicious cycle.Nowadays, in 4e, a minimum of skill ranks are free as you level up, and the armor check penalty is smaller.&nbsp; Plus, Swim has been rolled into another skill, so you get more out of training in it if you choose to do so, meaning characters are more likely to make that choice.Re, fireplaces and coronation ceremonies: That is not a problem with fireplaces.&nbsp; That is a problem with your players pushing nonviolent, nonthreatening, nonopponent NPCs into fireplaces just because they can.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4108434, member: 40961"] Yep. Lesson- don't send the characters into environments which can auto kill them, then put in monsters that can push them into environmental hazards. But putting them in environments which [I]harm[/I] them, rather than kill them outright, is fine. If you need guidelines on how to do this, check the section on traps. Compare the damage your environmental hazard does with the damage dealt by traps of various levels, and you'll know about what is reasonable. Heck, a 10' cliff and an uncovered 10' pit are the same thing, technically speaking. Re, boats: Water is no longer an auto-kill environmental hazard. The way nobody in D&D could swim was a relic of the 3e skill system, in which many characters had plate mail proficiency, but did not have Swim as a class skill. This resulted in them not putting ranks in Swim, and ending up with swim checks in the -9 range. DMs, knowing that the Paladin and Cleric would die instantly upon encountering the smallest of streams, declined to include said streams as locations for fights. Other players, relying on this tendency, then skipped putting ranks in Swim, completing the vicious cycle. Nowadays, in 4e, a minimum of skill ranks are free as you level up, and the armor check penalty is smaller. Plus, Swim has been rolled into another skill, so you get more out of training in it if you choose to do so, meaning characters are more likely to make that choice. Re, fireplaces and coronation ceremonies: That is not a problem with fireplaces. That is a problem with your players pushing nonviolent, nonthreatening, nonopponent NPCs into fireplaces just because they can. [/QUOTE]

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