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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khime" data-source="post: 4384583" data-attributes="member: 35943">Had a bit of a situation come up in one of our sessions I thought I'd query the board about. I (dwarf cleric) was being run through the encounter at the back of the DMG along with my fellow players, one of which was a human fighter. We had gotten to area 4; if you want to visualize the map without spoiling it for yourself, take a glance at the top part of the map on p217 of the DMG. I'll try to draw a map below:[code]@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@+-----#-----+-----+-----+-----+@@@@@@@|     #     |     |     |     |@@@@@@@|  K  #  W  | Ftr |     |     |@@@@@@@|     #     |     |     |     |@@@@@@@+-----#############-----+-----+@@@@@@@|     | ->  |  -> #     |     |@@@@@@@| Dwf |S t a|i r s#     |     |@@@@@@@|     | -> U|P -> #     |     |@@@@@@@+-----+-----+-----#############@      |     |     |     |     |     |@ = Wall, # = Ledge indicating everything to the right is 10 feet off the ground from everything to the left.[/code]The kobolds (K) had moved down the stairs, and the big boss (W) had moved to the north (left in the map) to be farthest away from anyone who managed to make their way up the stairs. I had one kobold pinned into the corner under the 10ft ledge (the square immediately left of the topmost "+10 ft"), and being a dwarf he could not manage to push me out of the way, and he had nowhere to shift (since getting past me diagonally would take him around a corner, and you can't move in that way per PHB p283). The other kobold had been diposed of by the fighter on his way up the stairs, and he rounded the corner to get a few licks in on the big boss. That set up the layout above. Then the fighter decided he wanted to bull-rush the boss off the ledge. Now per the Forced Movement rules on PHB p285-286, "Forced movement can’t move a target into a space it couldn’t enter by walking." But you can indeed walked into a space occupied by an ally; you just can't stop there. Plus, the boss wasn't technically being forced into the space containing the kobold; he was being forced out into the air 10 feet above the kobold. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> He did try to catch himself, but failed his save, so the DM ruled that he fell to the square containing the ally, and per Falling rules on PHB p284, he fell just far enough to take damage, so he landed prone. Now, he is prone in an occupied space. He can't stand up! Per PHB 292, you can only stand up in unoccupied spaces, and if you need to stand up in an occupied space, you have to shift to an unoccupied one first. But there were no open spaces around him that he could reach (the foot of the stairs were still around a corner, which still blocks diagonal movement). He can't crawl away! Need a place to move to do that. See above. So he's stuck prone in a square while his far less able Kobold ally is standing up and trying to fight. While prone the boss can still make attacks, but he's vulnerable to the melee attacks of the dwarf (that's me!), and the fighter up above him can keep him marked with his ranged attack (making it harder for the boss to fight back). The fight didn't last much longer. === Anyway, that's what happened. I'm trying to determine if we followed the forced movement rules correctly. Specifically,1) Can Forced Movement move you into a square where you could not normally end your turn?2) Is 10 feet above the ground considered the same square for such movement? I looked at some 3D movement rules in the DMG, but those focused on flying, and didn't seem to help PHB p283 talks about where you can end movement, and it seems to say that you stop short of ending movement if you can't move into the square and the end of your move. But that would lead to the situation of someone on a ledge being unable to be pushed off if someone is below him, which makes no common sense.</blockquote>

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