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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MarauderX" data-source="post: 4494629" data-attributes="member: 9990">This question may be best asked by example.The party is walking along a ledge 5' wide.  The adjacent water level is assumed to be at the same level as the ledge.  The water varies from 5' to 15' deep, stepping deeper at 45 degrees away from the ledge.  Four monsters (grell, otyugh, kuo-toa, and hobgoblin) ambush the wizard from the water.  The wizard casts Thunderwave, and of course hits them all!  Now he can push them each 3 squares, and decides to shove them away through the water.  Now, how far does each get pushed, and can they only be moved horizontally no matter what vertical plane they are on?The hobgoblin is standing in 5' of water, so his feet are 5' down from the wizard's feet.  Should he be pushed further back in the water, he will then be in 10' of water.  Can he be pushed over the edge?  Does he get a save?  If he does, does he fall or float?  The Kuo-toa is in the same boat, so to speak.  But the Kuo-toa has a swim speed - does that make any difference?  Could the wizard push the Kuo-toa deeper into the water diagonally, to 15' deep?  The Otyugh is a large critter; does she (or are they asexual? missed my DC=35 check) get any save to be pushed into the 15' deep area?  Would it assume to be at the highest level that it is standing on?  The Grell floats above the surface.  Could the wizard fling the grell away vertically since it has a fly speed and won't be affected by vertical movement?  Could the wizard force the grell into the water?  In a related topic, could a wizard use the spell Icy Grasp to grab himself and pull himself up or down vertically?  Or is Icy Grasp also restricted to horizontal push-pull?Thanks in advance -~MX</blockquote>

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