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<blockquote data-quote="Amaroq" data-source="post: 5120467" data-attributes="member: 15470">I think the thing on Vertical movement stems from the original PHB wording in the section on Forced Movement. :and also I think, as you indicated, that that is intended to prevent me from pushing somebody two squares vertically and having him fall for an extra 1d10 damage. It does very explicitly prevent me from moving a flying creature into a square it could fly into because it couldn't walk into it.IMHO, that feels very cheesy. 1. monsters are a lot more likely to be flying than the PC's are.2. The players can't use their Pull powers to get a bunch of flying artillery into melee range.3. There doesn't seem to be any good &quot;fluff&quot; explanation for it.For your game, I'd suggest explaining your concerns to your DM, describing the flying-bad-guys encounter as less-than-fun for the melee characters, and asking him to house-rule the vertical movement thing as follows:A. Drop the final sentence I quoted on p285, trusting that its handled by the quote on p286.B. Update 286 to &quot;Forced Movement can't move a target into a space it couldn't enter using one of the forms of movement available to it.&quot;That's about what we do: you still can't push an orc 2 squares up in the air (because he can't walk there), but you can pull a flying creature down from height 5 squares to height 3 squares with a &quot;Pull 2&quot; power. Suggest that he give certain flying bad guys a dwarf-like resistance to this sort of thing: e.g., with these rules, a Dragon might need an additional power which reduces any forced movement applied to it by 2 squares. From a game-balance perspective, it works well enough with several flying creatures, but it does mean that a single flying bad guy has a real hard time with a 4-PC party, as they can keep bringing him down to them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Amaroq, post: 5120467, member: 15470"] I think the thing on Vertical movement stems from the original PHB wording in the section on Forced Movement. : and also I think, as you indicated, that that is intended to prevent me from pushing somebody two squares vertically and having him fall for an extra 1d10 damage. It does very explicitly prevent me from moving a flying creature into a square it could fly into because it couldn't [b]walk[/b] into it. IMHO, that feels very cheesy. 1. monsters are a lot more likely to be flying than the PC's are. 2. The players can't use their Pull powers to get a bunch of flying artillery into melee range. 3. There doesn't seem to be any good "fluff" explanation for it. For your game, I'd suggest explaining your concerns to your DM, describing the flying-bad-guys encounter as less-than-fun for the melee characters, and asking him to house-rule the vertical movement thing as follows: A. Drop the final sentence I quoted on p285, trusting that its handled by the quote on p286. B. Update 286 to "Forced Movement can't move a target into a space it couldn't enter using one of the forms of movement available to it." That's about what we do: you still can't push an orc 2 squares up in the air (because he can't walk there), but you can pull a flying creature down from height 5 squares to height 3 squares with a "Pull 2" power. Suggest that he give certain flying bad guys a dwarf-like resistance to this sort of thing: e.g., with these rules, a Dragon might need an additional power which reduces any forced movement applied to it by 2 squares. From a game-balance perspective, it works well enough with several flying creatures, but it does mean that a single flying bad guy has a real hard time with a 4-PC party, as they can keep bringing him down to them. [/QUOTE]

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