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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 1447699" data-attributes="member: 5122">My group went through Forge of Fury early ... very soon after its release.  We never finished it, due primarily to the infamous roper encounter, which resulted in two near-TPKs.Frankly, I simply don't believe the stories of 4th-level PCs beating the roper on initial encounter.  Not by the module as written.  It can't be done.  I attempted it with my PCs over and over and over again, after the TPK.  Even with good luck with the dice, the result was the same.First, there aren't enough clues on the roper's existence, and by the time the PCs even have a chance to spot it (against its Hide of +18), they are within range of its tentacles.  And that's for the folks with low-light vision.Second, the roper is intelligent.  It knows it's all but invulnerable to magic, and it knows it doesn't have a hard time hitting armored creatures.  It'll take the fighters and clerics out first.  Sure, they have decent Fort save, but at 4th level a DC 18 save is tough.Third, despite what a couple of folks have said, you can't charge the roper.  The cavern floor slopes down into a stream.  The roper sits on a ledge on the other side.  It'd take even fast PCs two rounds of movement to reach the roper.  That's 13 tentacle attacks (including one from the almost certain surprise round).  And against 4th-level PCs, its AC of 24 is pretty good protection against AoOs it might incur by continuing to use its tentacles once it's threatened.Fourth, the roper has SR 30, immunity to electricity, cold resistance 10.  Lesser fire orb is obviously a great spell for this situation.  (Unfortunately it didn't exist when the module was released and for some time after.)Fifth, as written the roper isn't willing to negotiate until it has "secured its first victim," and even then the PCs have to be the ones to make a call for parley.  Even very smart players are going to be loath to surrender or negotiate in this situation, especially when they -- possibly both player and PC -- probably don't know how vastly outclassed they are by the creature.Sixth, some characters -- whether due to class restrictions or just RP restrictions -- can't give the roper what it wants.  Their only options are fight or deceive and retreat.I altered the encounter and had the roper make the call for parley, bemoaning its monotonous diet.  I have one charismatic player, however, who is of the "PC should never die as long as they're acting heroically" school of thought, and he managed to convince the others not to negotiate or surrender.  (We've since discussed our gaming philosophies many times, after several of his PCs' deaths, and he's aware that I don't share his opinion.)Although I really like the alteration one poster above made -- having the roper being worshipped by the trogs, which also allows the PCs some clues -- and I might use that setup with experienced 3.x gamers, for not-so-experienced players I'm going to side with the folks who are recommending removing the roper encounter, or replacing it with something more suitable.If you run the encounter as written, it will kill PCs.  Possibly all of them.  And there's no surer way to sour someone's taste for roleplaying games.</blockquote>

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