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Message: <blockquote data-quote="sunshadow21" data-source="post: 6766604" data-attributes="member: 6667193">The thing is that the Wall is perfectly consistent with the rest of the post Time of Troubles setup. Gods and mortals have been tied together into a very active and very noticeable reciprocating relationship, and those that choose to defy that relationship, whether it be god or mortal, can quite legitimately be considered "faithless" and worthy of pretty severe punishment. Now when it first happened, there were probably still mortals that remembered the pre-Time of Troubles arrangement and resisted the new one vigourously. At this point, the only ones left that remember that old way are the gods, maybe a few dragons, and possibly a few liches. The gods by now would have resigned themselves to the new system and learned to work with it rather than fighting against it. Very few mortals would know of any other system, and would have little reason to actively fight it; those that still do aren't likely to get much sympathy from gods that probably don't like the system that much better, but are stuck with it anyways, at least for the next millenia or so until Ao finally decides to take a nap.Most of the objections so far seem to boil down to 2 issues. One is looking at the Wall in isolation of of the rest of the power structure as developed by canon, and the other is simply not liking the premise behind the post Time of Troubles power structure. The main problem occurring is that enough real life examples apply that people assume that all real life examples apply, and they don't. The FR definition of faith and "faithlessness" is different from real world historical views on those topics and also different from modern day views on those topics. The forces that created those concepts in the real world may be the same, but the world is different, and so how those forces play out and are ulitmately understood will be different. Within the context of the world of FR, it is quite possible, given the well defined relationship between mortal and god, to arrive at a definition of those two words that is internally consistent.  Peasants may not understand the full context of the Wall and Fugue Plane, but they would most certainly understand the basics of the mortal-god interdependency and that mortals that choose to eschew that interdependency will not have a happy afterlife.I guess I don't quite understand how simply removing the Wall and Fugue Plane fixes any of the difficulties. Simply letting the souls travel unimpeded to the outer Planes basically kills off the gods, as they will be losing most of their power source, and you end up with something akin to the Time of Troubles all over again; that's not somethings that's going to have any more internal logic than the Wall. I'm not going to say I would have come up with the Wall as a solution, but given the greater context it works better than most of the ideas I've seen in this thread to get around it. The only way to truly get rid of the Wall and associated lore without creating new problems is to act as though the Time of Troubles never happened to force the new conditions upon the world. Anything less than that is simply removing one potential problem for another.</blockquote>

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