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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6766842" data-attributes="member: 22779">The problem is, I don't play in your game and you don't play in mine.  What happens in your game stays in your game.  And, no one is ever argued differently.However, you also don't get to apply what happens in your game to the baseline presented in the books.  Since the discussion here is based on what's actually presented in the setting, not what is presented in someone's home game, you're punching at shadows.For example, I say that you cannot move the Fugue plane.  Nothing will move it.  Now, in my home game, that would be 100% true.  It's my game after all and whatever I can get my players on board with goes.  Heck, I could say that gods cannot be killed.  Again, my game, my rules.  However, since you don't play in my game, none of that actually applies.  In FR canon, gods can and have been killed (albeit with varying degrees of "killed" <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> ).  Arguing that they can never be killed specifically violates canon which clearly states that they can be.It's not about being right or wrong.  It's about discussing what actually is true in the setting.  Not what's true around a specific table.  According to FR canon, killing Kelemvor would have zero effect on the Fugue Plane.  AFAIK, there are no existing artifacts or spells that could actually move a plane of existence.  Not that you couldn't add one of course.  I played in a very excellent Planescape game where metaphysical chains were being gated in from the Abyss to drag a portion of another plane down into the Abyss.  Cool.  Very, very cool idea.But, completely non-canon.  Since the whole point of this little discussion is about why the Wall of the Faithless exists in FR, we have to justify its existence using canon.  If we go beyond canon, then, any reason at all can be used.  The Wall exists because Ao says it does.  End of discussion.  However, that argument isn't based on any existing canon and I'm basically just making stuff up.  Perfectly acceptable in a home game, but, rather irrelevant for the purposes of this conversation.According to FR canon lore, the Wall exists.  As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather come up for reasons why that is, rather than try to argue that it shouldn't exist at all.  Are there reasonable reasons for its existence?  Again, as far as I'm concerned, yes, there is.  It's believable, it's consistent and it adds a unique twist to Forgotten Realms that doesn't exist in other settings.  Exactly what setting lore should do.  If I wanted to use the baseline D&D afterlife in FR, I certainly could, but, to me, that waters down FR.  Makes FR less unique and takes away from the feel of FR.  FR with the Wall presents a setting where faith in something is very important.  Doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith in something.  There's lots of settings where that isn't true.  A character in Greyhawk that has no faith and denies the gods, AFAIK, goes to whatever alignment plane he's supposed to go after death.  A character in Mystara can actually ascend to godhood, but, the afterlife is generally not terribly well detailed.  A thief in Mystara can believe whatever he or she likes and it really makes little difference.  The faith of a character in Ravenloft is completely unimportant.  I don't recall Ravenloft even having an afterlife although I could certainly be wrong.  It makes no sense for a character to have faith in a higher power or pantheon in Dark Sun.  Why would they?  There are no gods, everyone dies and goes to the Grey.  Good, bad, indifferent, it doesn't matter.  The Wall and the Fugue Plane set FR apart from other settings.  Which, IMNSHO, is precisely what canon elements should do.</blockquote>

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