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[Forgotten Realms] The Wall of the Faithless
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6788942" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>That's not really the way it worked. Ancient (polytheist) religion by and large doesn't care about what you believe in, it cares about what you <strong>do</strong>. It doesn't matter if you believed in ma'at or not (or worshiped at her temples), you'd be judged by it all the same, and your belief in ma'at was irrelevant for how it weighed on the scale. </p><p></p><p>And so the Wall works like ma'at except that it also takes into account your devotion to some sky-person into account as well as a trump card. And since you can be good without giving two sods about any sky-person, good people are made to suffer. In a game about devotion to ma'at, we wouldn't have D&D alignments (it likely would not be traditional heroic fantasy!). In a game with D&D alignments, we wouldn't have this entirely separate and irrelevant metric determining whether you suffered in the afterlife or not, unless it was something evil.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm cool with a DM setting limits on what they want, but if a DM doesn't set those limits, I don't see why I'm beholden to them. If the DM says "you must be a gully dwarf," then I'll be a gully dwarf. If a DM says "you must be Good," I'll be Good. If the DM says, "This game is about fighting the Cult of the Dragon," I'll make a character who fights the cult of the dragon. </p><p></p><p>"You must accept that the Wall of the Faithless is fine" is not a precondition of playing in FR. It <strong>objectively</strong> isn't. </p><p></p><p></p><p>FR is a kitchen sink, so it's not always front and center. It's not front and center in most Drizz't novels, it's not front and center in the original boxed set, it's not front and center in 4e, it's not front and center for the FR Dragonborn, etc, etc, etc,.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The job of PC's is to rewrite the setting. If I'm not changing the world, my Hero's Journey isn't very Campbellian, now, is it? </p><p></p><p></p><p>If you say "I want to play a Primeval Thule game," these are all perfectly acceptable characters in most Primeval Thule games. </p><p></p><p>If you say "PT is a low magic setting," these are all still perfectly acceptable characters in PT, it just gives them some context.</p><p></p><p>If you say "I want to play a game with a low-magic PC party," the last one could STILL be an acceptable character, depending upon the calibration of "low."</p><p></p><p>It's not like you provided a list of classes or races - your players are likely still trying to figure out what that proposal means in practice. I think I've got an idea, but that's only after locking it down to "no at-will spellcasting" (and that still includes Vengeance paladins who can heal wounds with a touch and totem warrior barbarians who can speak with animals and monks that can heal their own wounds, two of which you decided to add even though the setting material removes them, so ¯\(°_o)/¯ ) </p><p></p><p></p><p>The Driz'zt stories seem to do just fine with him going "Uhh...this one, I guess," when asked about a patron deity. The HotDQ game you're in doesn't have ANY PC's that care about the gods (now that the cleric's dead). </p><p></p><p>FR's distinctive features lie in the common magic (yeah, red wizards know how to call back gods, run with it) and ancient history (that old castle and the Mere itself and the lizardfolk), IMXP. You play FR because you want to explore ancient magical ruins, have a world where wizards are a common feature, or have some association with the previous fiction. WotC uses FR as a staging ground because it's pretty generic, they don't have to alter Generic Plots much to fit within it, and they can just visit a few locales from the other media properties and run with it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6788942, member: 2067"] That's not really the way it worked. Ancient (polytheist) religion by and large doesn't care about what you believe in, it cares about what you [B]do[/B]. It doesn't matter if you believed in ma'at or not (or worshiped at her temples), you'd be judged by it all the same, and your belief in ma'at was irrelevant for how it weighed on the scale. And so the Wall works like ma'at except that it also takes into account your devotion to some sky-person into account as well as a trump card. And since you can be good without giving two sods about any sky-person, good people are made to suffer. In a game about devotion to ma'at, we wouldn't have D&D alignments (it likely would not be traditional heroic fantasy!). In a game with D&D alignments, we wouldn't have this entirely separate and irrelevant metric determining whether you suffered in the afterlife or not, unless it was something evil. I'm cool with a DM setting limits on what they want, but if a DM doesn't set those limits, I don't see why I'm beholden to them. If the DM says "you must be a gully dwarf," then I'll be a gully dwarf. If a DM says "you must be Good," I'll be Good. If the DM says, "This game is about fighting the Cult of the Dragon," I'll make a character who fights the cult of the dragon. "You must accept that the Wall of the Faithless is fine" is not a precondition of playing in FR. It [B]objectively[/B] isn't. FR is a kitchen sink, so it's not always front and center. It's not front and center in most Drizz't novels, it's not front and center in the original boxed set, it's not front and center in 4e, it's not front and center for the FR Dragonborn, etc, etc, etc,. The job of PC's is to rewrite the setting. If I'm not changing the world, my Hero's Journey isn't very Campbellian, now, is it? If you say "I want to play a Primeval Thule game," these are all perfectly acceptable characters in most Primeval Thule games. If you say "PT is a low magic setting," these are all still perfectly acceptable characters in PT, it just gives them some context. If you say "I want to play a game with a low-magic PC party," the last one could STILL be an acceptable character, depending upon the calibration of "low." It's not like you provided a list of classes or races - your players are likely still trying to figure out what that proposal means in practice. I think I've got an idea, but that's only after locking it down to "no at-will spellcasting" (and that still includes Vengeance paladins who can heal wounds with a touch and totem warrior barbarians who can speak with animals and monks that can heal their own wounds, two of which you decided to add even though the setting material removes them, so ¯\(°_o)/¯ ) The Driz'zt stories seem to do just fine with him going "Uhh...this one, I guess," when asked about a patron deity. The HotDQ game you're in doesn't have ANY PC's that care about the gods (now that the cleric's dead). FR's distinctive features lie in the common magic (yeah, red wizards know how to call back gods, run with it) and ancient history (that old castle and the Mere itself and the lizardfolk), IMXP. You play FR because you want to explore ancient magical ruins, have a world where wizards are a common feature, or have some association with the previous fiction. WotC uses FR as a staging ground because it's pretty generic, they don't have to alter Generic Plots much to fit within it, and they can just visit a few locales from the other media properties and run with it. [/QUOTE]
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