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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6790400" data-attributes="member: 22779">But, now, we're back to the idea of the players forcing themes and events on the campaign outside of what the DM/GM is trying to set up.  The druid trying to bring the rain?  Not really such a problem.  The water genasi druid trying to bring back the rain?  That's an anti-setting character.  And it was very problematic.  There is a character that can create water in a setting that specifically forbids doing that.  That's not simply a "ready made antagonist", that's a character that is turning the tropes of the setting on their ears.  Which is fine, if that's what the group wants.  You want to play a game where the group includes someone who can create water in Darksun and deal with the repercussions of such a character?  Fine and dandy.  But, in an ongoing campaign, where you have several plot lines going on, suddenly you plop in this new character that derails pretty much every other plot line because the existence of such a character is such a huge setting changing event that you either have to turn the campaign in a completely new direction, or, as was more or less done in our campaign, lampshade it and ignore it.  Same as the Mind Shard character.  There is no realistic way that our group should have been able to function anywhere in Athas.  We should have been mobbed every single time we appeared in public.  Bad enough the warlock that uses magic publicly, which was my bad, but we had a mind shard AND a water genasi.  The group very quickly evolved into an anti-setting group where everyone is acting against the setting.Me, I would have liked to actually play IN a Dark Sun game.  Problem was, no one else appeared interested.  Not with the characters that kept getting added to the game.Yes, characters should be interesting and bring in all sorts of hooks for the DM to use to generate a campaign.  I have no problems with a player driven campaign.  But, like I said, I've really, really lost the taste for characters that are anti-setting characters.  The psychotic, evil elf ranger in a Dragonlance campaign, the mindshard robot in Dark Sun, the endless lines of "fish out of water" characters that I've seen played in every single campaign I've ever played for the last thirty years.Is it really that hard to look at a campaign setting, particularly one you may have not played before, or at least, not played terribly often, and create a unique, interesting character with ties to the setting that isn't designed to run against the grain for the entire campaign?  Is it really that much to ask that a group playing in a War of the Lance campaign to make actual, honest to goodness heroes?  Why is it every time you hand players a list of classes/races for a campaign, there is always that one player who wants something off the menu?  Is it really that hard to stick to the menu?</blockquote>

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