Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[Forgotten Realms] The Wall of the Faithless
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6791498" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>It's right there in the fact that it makes good people suffer. Things that make good people suffer are evil and morally repugnant in heroic fantasy, in FR, and in D&D. Why is Tiamat evil and morally repugnant? <em>Because she makes good people suffer.</em> Why is she set up as the antagonist? <em>She intends to make good people suffer.</em> Why is the Dragon Cult plot to bring her back something the PC's fight against? <em>Because it will make good people suffer.</em> Putting any soul in the wall is entirely consistent with the descriptions of Evil in the 5e PHB, and at odds with the descriptions of Good (and iffy, at best, with the descriptions of Neutral). </p><p></p><p></p><p>That doesn't make it <em>good.</em> To go with the Star Wars analogy, it is a fate that is expected and accepted that if you defy the Empire you will be punished and likely killed, but that doesn't make Vader <em>Neutral</em> when he blows up Alderaan. Most people in the Galaxy would say that's to be expected and accepted. Leia does not accept it. Her mission to resist the Empire makes her a hero. </p><p></p><p></p><p>It's none of those things. It's just <em>accepted</em>. That's not the same thing. </p><p></p><p></p><p>FR is not a setting of deeply flawed heroes. Its most popular characters are Marty Stus who fight bad guys and win. You don't HAVE to accept bad things in the Realms, any more than Drizz'zt had to accept the Spider Queen. </p><p></p><p></p><p>That has floated up from time to time. The last time it floated up, I pointed out that it was kind of nonsense. And regardless, it doesn't stop the PC's from doing it better. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Why not let the Wall fall and the Heroes Win? What is there to like about it?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6791498, member: 2067"] It's right there in the fact that it makes good people suffer. Things that make good people suffer are evil and morally repugnant in heroic fantasy, in FR, and in D&D. Why is Tiamat evil and morally repugnant? [I]Because she makes good people suffer.[/I] Why is she set up as the antagonist? [I]She intends to make good people suffer.[/I] Why is the Dragon Cult plot to bring her back something the PC's fight against? [I]Because it will make good people suffer.[/I] Putting any soul in the wall is entirely consistent with the descriptions of Evil in the 5e PHB, and at odds with the descriptions of Good (and iffy, at best, with the descriptions of Neutral). That doesn't make it [I]good.[/I] To go with the Star Wars analogy, it is a fate that is expected and accepted that if you defy the Empire you will be punished and likely killed, but that doesn't make Vader [I]Neutral[/I] when he blows up Alderaan. Most people in the Galaxy would say that's to be expected and accepted. Leia does not accept it. Her mission to resist the Empire makes her a hero. It's none of those things. It's just [I]accepted[/I]. That's not the same thing. FR is not a setting of deeply flawed heroes. Its most popular characters are Marty Stus who fight bad guys and win. You don't HAVE to accept bad things in the Realms, any more than Drizz'zt had to accept the Spider Queen. That has floated up from time to time. The last time it floated up, I pointed out that it was kind of nonsense. And regardless, it doesn't stop the PC's from doing it better. Why not let the Wall fall and the Heroes Win? What is there to like about it? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[Forgotten Realms] The Wall of the Faithless
Top