Forgotten Realms: Tyr and the head-on-a-spike

[Random Axe]

Isn't it an accepted practice of law in Waterdeep to post heads on pikes outside the castle, of those who were killed trying to do evil against the Lords of Waterdeep? Isn't Piergeron himself a paladin of Tyr? Therefore, the whole gesture of heads on pikes seems RIGHT UP TYR'S ALLEY. Justice is justice. Making examples of the evildoers is a big statement, something that the followers of Tyr would definitely NOT frown upon.

 

[Crust]

Don't trust FR lore that you found on the wiki.

The references at the bottom of the link validate the article.

I would expect Tyr clerics to respect the dead of civilized humanoids (elves, humans, dwarves, any race that is obeying laws), not chaotic evil goblins. There can be no reasoning with them except through bribery, force, or fear. The head-on-spike display is their language. I wouldn't even have a problem with a paladin doing something like that to a degenerate goblin who might be considered an animal rather than a humanoid capable of understanding law and justice. I like the idea of a LG paladin using the tactics of the enemy against him. It's a grim logic that guides the fanatic. It's interesting how brutal LG can be in the face of CE.

I'm wondering why there was such a debate between two clerics of Tyr. Unless they studied in different temples, I would think their philosophies concerning goblins would coincide. I would have had that discussion out of game, then proceeded in-game knowing where both clerics stood on the matter.

 

[Tewligan]

I would have had that discussion out of game, then proceeded in-game knowing where both clerics stood on the matter.

Huh - it really is strange to me that more than one person has suggested resolving this character disagreement out of game. Again, Sabathius has said that everyone enjoyed the in-character debate that served to develop and explain the outlook of these different characters. Why suggest pausing the game for the sake of not "having to" roleplay it? That seems ridiculously not fun to me. I'm really baffled by this:

Cleric A: The severed heads of these scum will give the cowardly servants of evil something to think about!
Cleric B: Heresy! In the temple in which I took my vows, we learned to temper justice with mercy, to...
DM: Whoa there, guys! We came here for roleplaying, didn't we? Now, let's just stop the game for a minute so we can discuss how your characters feel about this before we get back to the roleplaying game, okay?

Yes, baffled.

 

[freyar]

The references at the bottom of the link validate the article.

I just glanced through the three references, but I didn't actually see anything about respecting fallen enemies, etc, as the Wiki said. I might have missed it, but OTOH I did see in Faiths & Avatars a note that Tyrran priests often subscribe to a philosophy like "an eye for an eye" when they are in the lawless wilderness.

BTW, I do agree with you that Tyrran clerics would generally respect the dead of "civilized races."

 

[Milagroso]

The references at the bottom of the link validate the article.

I would expect Tyr clerics to respect the dead of civilized humanoids (elves, humans, dwarves, any race that is obeying laws), not chaotic evil goblins. There can be no reasoning with them except through bribery, force, or fear. The head-on-spike display is their language. I wouldn't even have a problem with a paladin doing something like that to a degenerate goblin who might be considered an animal rather than a humanoid capable of understanding law and justice. I like the idea of a LG paladin using the tactics of the enemy against him. It's a grim logic that guides the fanatic. It's interesting how brutal LG can be in the face of CE.

I'm wondering why there was such a debate between two clerics of Tyr. Unless they studied in different temples, I would think their philosophies concerning goblins would coincide. I would have had that discussion out of game, then proceeded in-game knowing where both clerics stood on the matter.

Hmm... maybe I'm misreading this, if so please pardon my ignorance - but are you saying that a LG Paladin would be okay with using torture or threat of torture on a goblin to coerce him? Well, no of course not. That isn't even in the text you wrote. But, it does imply that a Paladin would be "in the right" if he threw all the rules out the window and resorted to CE tactics when dealing with sub-human uncivilized CE creatures such as goblins.

Well, my take on that is of course not. Would a Paladin resort to the desecration of undead in order to send out a message to all evil-doers? Hmm... I don't think so. But then, its okay for a LG cleric - right? I mean, even though their alignments are the same, they aren't necessarily held to the same set of standards.

I'm just making conversation here.

 

[Crust]

Why suggest pausing the game for the sake of not "having to" roleplay it?

I made the suggestion because the OP might find it useful in future games.

There are times when player knowledge conflicts with PC knowledge, and I think the scenario in question is a good example of that. Ironing things out out-of-game could perhaps make the in-game experience more streamlined. Just a suggestion.

 

[Crust]

Would a Paladin resort to the desecration of undead in order to send out a message to all evil-doers? Hmm... I don't think so. But then, its okay for a LG cleric - right? I mean, even though their alignments are the same, they aren't necessarily held to the same set of standards.

I think the destruction of the evil-doer's undead is message enough.

I have my own views of what a paladin should and shouldn't do in the face of evil, an evil that does not compromise, does not parlay, and does not understand the concepts of law and good. That's a whole other ball of wax.

 

[WampusCat43]

...

I'm wondering why there was such a debate between two clerics of Tyr. Unless they studied in different temples, I would think their philosophies concerning goblins would coincide. I would have had that discussion out of game, then proceeded in-game knowing where both clerics stood on the matter.

DM of the game here. Not only did they study at different temples, "Spike 'Em" is a former cleric of Tempus.

We've been playing nearly four years, and this argument was one of the funniest moments we've had. I sent the highlights to two other DM buddies, with a message subject of "This is why I play this game". The debate continued, in character and even quoting verses of 'scripture', via email after the game.

What they don't know is why these goblins, which didn't look anything like the goblins they had wiped out just hours before, were even there, heh heh heh...